Discussion Topic: We all have experiences of being judged.  However, we don’t often reflect on how we judge others or why so many people in the lifestyle still tend to judge.  We discuss how we are wired and what influences in our lives may predispose us to our own personal bias when assessing and judging others.

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Join our Members Only Community[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row][vc_column][vc_tta_accordion][vc_tta_section title=”Episode Transcript ” tab_id=”1583164207350-5f408f36-8b74″][vc_column_text]Mr. Jones 0:01

This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only.


Mrs. Jones 0:06

Hey, you teenagers out there, if you’re under 18 this show is more for your parents. So now that you have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework.


Mr. Jones 0:17

We’re a longtime married couple who’s decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle.


Mrs. Jones 0:27

Care to join us? [Music]


Mr. Jones 0:46

Hello, everyone, I’m Mr. Jones.


Mrs. Jones 0:48

And I’m Mrs. Jones and we want to welcome you to Episode 59 of the We Gotta Thing podcast.


Mr. Jones 0:53

You don’t look too good.


Mrs. Jones 0:55

Yeah, I’ve been sick since January 3.


Mr. Jones 0:59

You haven’t been healthy since 2018.


Mrs. Jones 1:02

Pretty much. Yeah. I’m on serious drugs…


Mr. Jones 1:07

We’ve put this podcast off long enough. Keep thinking that. And you know, I’m still a little scratchy throat myself.


Mrs. Jones 1:15

My voice is fine. I just have a sinus infection. So like, yeah, just don’t make me move my head too quickly or it’ll explode.


Mr. Jones 1:23

Yeah. But the show must go on. I have to give you credit Mrs. Jones – as sick as you’ve been, you’ve been a trooper. We’ve been pretty busy.


Mrs. Jones 1:35 If you say so.


Mr. Jones 1:36


We’ve been pretty busy.


Mrs. Jones 1:37 Yeah, that’s true.


Mr. Jones 1:40

I mean, I think last time we we mentioned that we were trying to see some friends that we had met a year ago and it didn’t work out.


Mrs. Jones 1:48

Well, the last time we recorded it was snowing that night. That’s like the only good snow we’ve gotten this winter. And it was the night of our lifestyle date. That had been in the makings for a year.


Mr. Jones 1:59

Yeah. But I can personally attest that the two weekends after that we were able to get together with them. And … it was worth the wait.


Mrs. Jones 2:08

Yeah, we made up for lost time.


Mr. Jones 2:09

Yeah. I remember testing out the hot tub.


Unknown Speaker 2:14

That’s right. Oh, and the massage table is better than ever. We tested it out with four people. It survived.


Mr. Jones 2:22

Yep. So we had a we had a sexy evening with them. They’re a great couple. And, you know, not to get into too much detail, but she and I made a lot of eye contact that night.


Mrs. Jones 2:36 Oh, really?


Mr. Jones 2:37

Yeah. And it was the eye contact that made it really sexy because, you know, you can really connect with somebody through their eyes. And she, I can’t think she’s like a force of nature. She’s very beautiful.


Mrs. Jones 2:53

Yes, she is. Well, then after that. We just got back from San Diego.


Mr. Jones 2:59

Yes. You know, it was supposed to be just a meet and greet at first. But it kind of turned into an event.


Mrs. Jones 3:06 Yeah, it evolved.


Mr. Jones 3:08


And we’re going to blame or give credit to our friends out there, R and M, and their posse who helped prepare and get things ready.


Mrs. Jones 3:19

Like I just can’t believe what an amazing job they did putting this whole weekend together. They thought of every single little detail and they’re just super creative and super generous with their time and their resources and it was funny they, they have a pickup truck and they live local. Reasonably local, they have a pickup truck and it took two trips to get all their stuff to the hotel.


Mr. Jones 3:47

Yeah. And they even picked us up from the airport and took our stuff.


Mrs. Jones 3:51

Right so I think they made their first trip on Thursday night and then they picked us up from the airport Friday at lunchtime and took us to this beautiful outdoor location for lunch and a couple other lifestyle couples and a couple ladies whose husbands were at work came. So it was just a great beginning to our trip. And then we we pulled up to the hotel and the bellboys come out to help get our luggage out of the back of the truck. And then the bellboys are looking at our friend and they’re like, you were just here like yesterday dropping stuff off, right? They were like, yeah.


Mr. Jones 4:29

So what was originally a Saturday evening meet and greet turned into – first of all we did… Oh, well, there was that nice hot tub. And you know, it was like in the 60s in San Diego and it was February and they kept apologizing to us because it was so cold. I’m like, Dude, what are you talking about?


Mrs. Jones 4:48

Well, one of the couples that came was from I don’t know, like Minnesota.


Mr. Jones 4:53

We had couples from Indiana, Kansas.


Mrs. Jones 4:56

The week before our meet and greet, in Minnesota it was negative 50. So the lady looks at our San Diego friends and she’s like, Dude it’s 100 degrees warmer here than it was at home – like literally 100 degrees warmer.


Mr. Jones 5:10

Yeah so when we got there we went up on the roof and hopped in the hot tub. We had to keep our clothes on but it was still nice to get into the hot tub.


Mrs. Jones 5:17

A little swimsuit time.


Mr. Jones 5:18

Yeah. Right. With swimsuits. Started out a couple hours up there getting to know everybody as people trickled in and then we had we all went to dinner across the street.


Mrs. Jones 5:29


Yeah. Well, it’s funny too in the hot tub as people were arriving, you know, we had put in our on our MeWe we had a San Diego like, group chat going. So we put in there. Hey, if you’re just getting in, come on up to the fourth floor where the hot tub was or whatever. A couple of our friends come came up that we had met before and been at Desire with and it was funny because they were like, wow, never seen you in a swimsuit before. [Laughs]


Mr. Jones 5:57

Yeah, that’s right. Yeah.


Mrs. Jones 6:00

I never really thought about that. Seen me naked, but not in a swimsuit.


Mr. Jones 6:02

And then after dinner we had a couple of – we had rooms all in the same part of the hotel, and then one of the rooms was we had they had three massage tables set up and they had blended some their own oil concoction.


Mrs. Jones 6:23

Oh, yeah. They had done coconut oil you know the the liquid coconut oil but then they had put essential oils in with the coconut oil and you had like several different scents, and so the planning committee made the sacrifice of getting together before our meet and greet – like a month before – to test out the massage oils to pick the scent that was you know, the most favorable I guess.


Mr. Jones 6:53

And number six was the winner.


Mrs. Jones 6:54

Number six was the winner. The sacrifices our peeps made for us, honey.


Mr. Jones 7:00

Yeah. So they brought little bottles of number six oil.


Mrs. Jones 7:05 That’s right.


Mr. Jones 7:06

Then there was another room that was set up for Mrs. Jones to make cocktails.


Mrs. Jones 7:10

Yeah, that was super fun. I had a little cocktail menu. I felt official.


Mr. Jones 7:14

I know you were.


Mrs. Jones 7:15

I know. I was making cocktails for everybody, kissing everybody. Mr. Jones 7:19


There was a line of people out the door.


Mrs. Jones 7:20

I know. It was really fun. And then, you know, it’s funny because a lot of – I had three different cocktails on the menu. And then I had a nice bottle of bourbon in case the gentleman just wanted some bourbon neat, and then I had a bottle of Licor 43 in case people had never tasted that before and have little shot glasses for the Licor 43. Well, a lot of people wanted to taste it because they hadn’t tried it before. And I didn’t make myself a drink at all. And I think I might have had one beer at dinner. Well, I couldn’t let these people take these shots of Licor 43 by themselves. So I kept taking shots with people. And the next thing I know I was like, man like, my nose is numb. What’s going on here?


Mr. Jones 8:02

The bottle was empty.


Mrs. Jones 8:07

The sacrifices I made, you know, just all around. You know, we were all just givers that weekend.


Mr. Jones 8:13

Then we had another room that was more of the quiet socializing room. And everybody coming together. And these were our people from our We Gotta Thing community. So they had already been getting to know each other in our community. So it was really like a little reunion because people are finally able to put faces and names and bodies together.


Mrs. Jones 8:34

Right. And it’s funny because you have MeWe names and then you have like, real first names.


Mr. Jones 8:39

Yeah. What’s your profile name?


Mrs. Jones 8:40

We had to reconcile that first. And then you had to put the faces with the names and the MeWe names, but it didn’t take long. And a lot of people had actually shared face pictures. So we we knew what most people look like. And it was just it was so easy to come together. Like we had known each other forever.


Mr. Jones 9:00

One of the funniest things was a couple of like, young men walk down the hallway, because we had the doors propped open and we were, we might have been socializing a little loud,


Mrs. Jones 9:11 Lord, we were loud.


Mr. Jones 9:12

I mean, we were decent, but some of the ladies had some sexy clothes on. And these two guys stopped and they said, Hey, what’s going on? Like, what kind of party is this? Can we join you? And our friend said, Oh, yeah, we’re a hang glider club.


Mrs. Jones 9:29

And do you think the guys believed?



Mr. Jones 9:32

Well, you know, it’s Southern California.


Mrs. Jones 9:33

I know like if you’re going to have a hang gliding club, this was the right area.


Mr. Jones 9:38

So for the whole rest of the weekend we called ourselves the hang gliding club.


Mrs. Jones 9:43

It was a hang gliding convention.


Mr. Jones 9:45

Oh, I’m sorry. Yeah, with massage table and cocktails. So us hang gliders had fun.


Mrs. Jones 9:55 Yes, we did.


Mr. Jones 9:55

And that was only Friday night.


Mrs. Jones 9:57

That was only Friday night.


Mr. Jones 9:58

So Saturday afternoon we all hopped in the ferry and went over to Coronado and went to Coronado Brewing Company and we asked for a table for 35. And they didn’t do badly. We ended up getting three different tables, but…


Mrs. Jones 10:13

Yeah, there were two huge tables and then you and I sat with some friends at a table for four. And Gosh, we had fun. Beer was good. The food was good. The company was good. Everybody behaved.


Mr. Jones 10:26

For the most part. And then we got back in the ferry.


Mrs. Jones 10:30

Oh my gosh, no, before the ferry, though. We’re walking back to the ferry. Remember, we stopped right at the edge of the water and got somebody to take a group shot? I mean, this group shot. First of all, it’s amazing because all these gorgeous sexy swingers are in it. But the backdrop was the city and the sky was perfectly blue. And people were saying that background looks fake. Like it was just that pretty.


Mr. Jones 10:55

I don’t think i saw a picture of that. Did we get a copy of that?


Mrs. Jones 10:57

I have it. It’s such a good picture. We had so much fun.



Mr. Jones 10:58

So we hopped in the ferry, went back across and on the rooftop we did a workshop. We found a tent. They had pitched a tent on the roof because it’s their cold season out there. So we all snuck into this tent. It was a huge tent.


Mrs. Jones 11:18

Yeah, like you could have a wedding in this tent.


Mr. Jones 11:20

Yeah. And I think there were probably what 30 or 40 of us.


Mrs. Jones 11:25 Something like that.


Mr. Jones 11:26

Yeah. So we did a one hour workshop, talked about judgment, got some good content for tonight, and then did some q&a. And that was a lot of fun, too. And then we went back and had – Well, we went out to dinner with another couple. And I’m not going to say this is a bad thing. But when you and I do these social events, it’s really difficult to connect with another particular couple.


Mrs. Jones 11:51

Right, we’re always busy.


Mr. Jones 11:53

Yeah, because we’re socializing with everybody and we want to be available, but I have to admit that I was interested. And they invited us to dinner. And we had a great dinner getting to know them.


Mrs. Jones 12:06

We knew him a little bit. We had met them before.


Mr. Jones 12:08

We had met them before


Mrs. Jones 12:09

And they were kind of on our list of, hmm, someday I’d like to get to know them better. So then they came to San Diego. We’re like, yeah. But still, we didn’t get to pull the trigger.


Mr. Jones 12:21

But we did get to know them a little bit better. Yeah. And we hopefully have a date in the future. But after after dinner with them, which was fantastic, we did the main meet and greet. And we had the 25 or so couples. No, yeah. 25 or so couples that had showed up. Plus maybe, what 15 or so couples that came?


Mrs. Jones 12:44

Yeah, I think there were like 15 or 20 other couples that came that night. It was a beautiful night they had. We were on the rooftop bar in downtown San Diego. And it was it was a beautiful night. It was chilly but they you know, all the places in San Diego have those big propane heaters. So and then they


had like group groupings around firepits like propane fire pits, like huge. So everybody was cuddling to stay warm.


Mr. Jones 13:12

And we had they all had instructions. So everyone, everybody from our group got there we were they were to find us and we gave out bracelets so you would know who you could bother and who you should stay away from. Because there were non-swinger people at the club, you know, at the bars.


Mrs. Jones 13:29

yeah, we didn’t have a takeover.


Mr. Jones 13:30

And it kind of looked like we were being a little cliquish, but I would say everybody was like, huddled around the fires. So you had to just bust your way into… But it wasn’t that people were closed off. It’s just that it did get a little chilly that night. Until we were all huddled around the fire. But we had such a good time.


Mrs. Jones 13:49 We did.


Mr. Jones 13:49

So many great couples there.


Mrs. Jones 13:52

Yep. I think we’re all in withdrawal this week.


Mr. Jones 13:55

I know. Well, it gave us good momentum for our next meet and greet which is in Atlanta.


Mrs. Jones 13:59 Yes.


Mr. Jones 14:00

April 26, and 27th. And we’re going to put some more information out on that upcoming but you know, we do have an events page on our website. So if you have an interest in that you can go there and sign up and we’ll be sending out an email soon, with what that looks like. But that’s also going to be a Friday night, Saturday night deal.


Mrs. Jones 14:19

Yes, it is. So yeah, it’s gonna be a whole weekend thing. And we have a special guest coming with us.


Mr. Jones 14:25 We do?


Mrs. Jones 14:25

Yes. Our friend Catherine from the flip your lid episode on jealousy that she did with us and the drama episode that she did with us about the adult chair and the adolescent chair. Yes. So she and her husband will be coming for the whole weekend and she’s gonna do a workshop with us on Saturday.



Mr. Jones 14:45

And she’s gonna do some sensual yoga.


Mrs. Jones 14:47

Yes, she’s actually a certified yoga instructor and she does sensual couples yoga. So she’s going to offer that class as well. So that’s gonna be a bonus. Oh, and then and then the other bonus is that after our meet and greet on Saturday, our kind of happy hour meet and greet, we’re going to go to Trapeze.


Mr. Jones 15:07 Yes, we are.


Mrs. Jones 15:08

…which is super exciting for you and I since we don’t have access to clubs around here, at least not easy access.


Mr. Jones 15:14

Yes, and we’ve been to Trapeze before and we know what an awesome club it is.


Mrs. Jones 15:19 Yep.


Mr. Jones 15:20

So this will be a little bit different than San Diego. But there’s a whole lot of interest. And, you know, we’re just really excited to do that. And then stay tuned. Because next month, we might even be able to tell you when and where the next meet and greet is gonna be.


Mrs. Jones 15:33

We’re already starting to plot that one out.


Mr. Jones 15:35

Right. Or you can meet us in Naughty in Nawlins. That’s coming up. That’s right, who we’re gonna do a workshop there and probably…


Mrs. Jones 15:42

Have you made our hotel reservations yet?


Mr. Jones 15:44

No, because I want to get in the Saint. We’re gonna stay in the other hotel.


Mrs. Jones 15:48

Yeah, I’m looking forward to checking that one out.


Mr. Jones 15:50

Yeah. Yeah, and then, here’s some new information. So we met we met some friends about a year ago. They came into town and had dinner with us. And they said, Look, we really, you know, your podcast really resonates with us. And they’ve been active and in our community, and they came to us about a


year ago, and they said, we’re going to build a lifestyle dating website. And I’m thinking, well, that’s a tough…


Mrs. Jones 16:21

…that’s a big task to take on.


Mr. Jones 16:24

That’s a big order because there are many of them. And, you know, a lot of people like some and there’s some big complaints about some and it’s hard to get critical mass. But what intrigued us with this is that their idea was, you know, we want to build a website where everybody feels welcome. And even if you don’t want to have sex with other people, if you just want to get to know people and socialize with people that you might connect with, but don’t feel pressure to play with. That’s going to be a part of what they you know, their site is all about. So it’s launched.


Mrs. Jones 17:02

Yes, it is just now launching. So it’s called Double Date Nation.


Mr. Jones 17:07

Yeah. So you can find it at doubledatenation.com. And we’ll have that on our website as well, but and in the show notes, but doubledatenation.com. It’s a great slick brand new interface.


Mrs. Jones 17:24

Oh, it’s yeah, the technology is outstanding. It’s very user friendly. It’s very intuitive. It’s just, it’s sleek, it’s sexy. It’s user friendly. And it just has – they’ve thought of virtually everything.


Mr. Jones 17:39

Yeah. Well, if you can, if you’re a part of a site now and you can think of the things you don’t like about it, they’ve really taken care of everything.


Mrs. Jones 17:46

Can I just say one little thing that I absolutely love about it?


Mr. Jones 17:49 What?


Mrs. Jones 17:50

This is silly, but but it’s actually so cool. It has an eject button.


Mr. Jones 17:55 Oh, yeah.


Mrs. Jones 17:56

So if you’re in there, looking around, and you know how it is, like, you have that oh shit moment when somebody comes up and there’s like something on your computer screen that you don’t want them to see or something on your phone that you don’t want them to see. And you’re like, trying to, like, hit the back button or you know, like, close it out and you’re like panicking and, you know, just hitting anything. Well, there’s always a little button. That is the eject button. And when you hit that


Mr. Jones 18:22 You click on it.


Mrs. Jones 18:23

You will yeah, you click on it. It takes you out of double date nation to some inane…


Mr. Jones 18:30

No, it takes you – you program what you want it to go to.


Mrs. Jones 18:32

Right, right. It’s an automatic link to take you to the weather channel or…


Mr. Jones 18:38

You program The Weather Channel, then you click that button and pop The Weather Channel appears. No harm, no foul.


Mrs. Jones 18:45

Yeah, so you know, so they’ve thought of all those little things that can either annoy you or or make a website inconvenient.


Mr. Jones 18:54

Well, the ease of use, the design, it’s really beautiful. It’s intuitive. So there’s not a lot you have to try to figure out. You can do chatting within it, you can build a group within it. I mean, there’s a whole lot of reasons why you would never need to leave that ecosystem or that environment.


Mrs. Jones 19:11

That is one really cool thing about it. Because a lot of the lifestyle websites, they’re kind of clunky to communicate with people – like maybe, maybe it’s easy to set up your profile and search for people and stuff. But then when you actually want to start like, emailing them, it can be a little cumbersome.


Mr. Jones 19:26

You usually take it outside.


Mrs. Jones 19:28

Yeah, but this this website is actually built to easily connect with people, kind of like offline, but within that website.


Mr. Jones 19:37

Yes. So and, and the thing that I like about it, and obviously it’s new. And so it’s going to take a while, you know, to get up to some critical mass but this site and this mentality reminds me a lot of our community, because at San Diego we had – what, how many couples?


Mr. Jones 19:56

Well 25 with us all weekend


Mr. Jones 19:57

That’s right. We’re on there. We have our profile all built up and ready to go.


Mr. Jones 19:57

And they connected before the event and I think in our community we have three or 300 and some people in there now. And what we’ve learned is its quality over quantity. You know, so. And some of these websites really populate themselves with fake profiles, just so you think that there’s a lot of people in there. So the whole philosophy here is, yeah, it’s going to take a while to get some people in there. But the people that are going to be in there, you’re going to have a greater chance to connect with. I believe. So anyway, doubledatenation.com, we are really going to try to help them promote this. And if you would like to try it out for three months for free, just use the promo code WGTPC, and you can sign up and when you do, please look for us and send us a friend request.


Mr. Jones 20:50

Yeah, we have pictures on there.


Mrs. Jones 20:52

We just need some friends.


Mr. Jones 20:53

Yeah. Just need some friends. But it’s grown. I mean, we’ve opened it up to our community and they’re in there playing around with it. But brand new, please come and join us. I think you… When it gets to be full maturity, it’s going to be a really great site.


Mrs. Jones 21:07 Yes, it is.


Mr. Jones 21:09

So, if you haven’t booked Desire Pearl yet, before we get into our topic, there’s just like a couple of master suites left.


Mrs. Jones 21:17

Well, there’s penthouses left too, if you’re, you know, yeah, if you’ve won the lottery.


Mr. Jones 21:21

That’s true. Last month, we said that there were 10 master suites, and I know that we’ve sold five or six or seven of them since then. So we’re getting down to the nitty gritty. So you, you should probably book if you want to go because it’s gonna, it’s gonna book out this month.


Mrs. Jones 21:36

Right. And we’re gonna be there November 16 to the 23rd.


Mr. Jones 21:39

Yeah. And then you’re gonna be emailing me and you’re gonna say, How can I get in? And I’m gonna say, didn’t you listen?


Mrs. Jones 21:45 Better luck next year!t


Mr. Jones 21:47


Because we’re about at the same capacity of people that we had last year. That’s gonna be a lot of fun. So, that it for keeping up with the Joneses?


Mrs. Jones 21:56 Like that was plenty.


Mr. Jones 21:57

All right. When we come back, we’re going to talk more about judgment and what that means in the lifestyle. [Music]


Mrs. Jones 22:21

Welcome to segment two – judgment in the lifestyle.


Mr. Jones 22:25

So let’s be honest, nobody likes to be judged.


Mrs. Jones 22:28 Of course not.


Mr. Jones 22:29

Especially those of us who choose to live this life on our own terms. Right?


Mrs. Jones 22:36

So you talking about swingers?


Mr. Jones 22:39 Yeah.


Mrs. Jones 22:39 Well just say it.


Mr. Jones 22:41

And I got intrigued by this because when we were at – when we did the recording at Desire, which is at the end of our last episode, and Daryl from Swinging Down Under said, you know, raise your hands if you feel like you’ve been judged, and a lot of the hands went up, and then he said, Now raise your hand if you’ve judged others and not as many hands went up. And I said, well, that’s really interesting. So


Mrs. Jones 23:03

I think he kind of threw the bullshit flag too.


Mr. Jones 23:05

He did. And it led us to think that, you know, we really haven’t talked about this. So let’s let’s delve into this term a little bit and see what it really means. And then see if we can understand why we tend to judge others, especially in the lifestyle.


Mrs. Jones 23:20

I think this is a really negative topic. But you’re – you’ve tried to convince me otherwise.


Mr. Jones 23:25

It’s a real topic. You can call it happy or sad or whatever. But the reality is, there’s a lot of judging that goes on in the lifestyle and


Mrs. Jones 23:33

Well, there’s a lot of judging that goes on in the world.


Mr. Jones 23:36

Correct. Right. And that’s a good place to start.


Mrs. Jones 23:38 Okay.


Mr. Jones 23:40

So believe it or not, I did a little bit of research. I’m not just going to talk off the top of my head. And this is really not controversial information here. But I did look, I’ve noted Dr. Elizabeth Hall from Psychology Today. And basically if you just Google Search judgment. I mean, there’s two types of attributions around judgment. The first one is situational. So just to understand judgment a little bit, to set the tone. Situational judgment means we believe somebody else’s behavior is due to something in their situation. Like when something happens, or somebody cuts you off, or somebody’s rude to you, and you say, well, they must be having a bad day. You know, that’s, you know, you’re not taking responsibility for that.

You’re just saying, well, the situation that they’re in, you know, they’re just having a bad day.


Mrs. Jones 24:33 Yeah.


Mr. Jones 24:34

And then the second is – the second attribution is personality attribution. And that’s where we get into a little bit of trouble, because that’s about the person’s character. So they’re either you know, they do the same thing, they cut you off, or they are rude to you, and instead of saying, oh, they’re having a bad day, you say, well, that person is just impatient or they’re unkind or they’re rude or something is wrong with them.


Mrs. Jones 24:59 He’s an ass.


Mr. Jones 25:01

Okay. Or you flip them off. Yeah. So you – it’s more of you perceive it as a personal attack. And then it’s a character assessment of the other person. It’s not the situation. It’s just a character flaw.


Mrs. Jones 25:17

So one thing I remember Darryl talking about at Desire when we had that little seminar thing in the disco was that he was explaining how, as human beings that our brains are wired to make instantaneous judgments about people, and about the situations that we’re in and it was basically a defense mechanism because, you know, like back in, like prehistoric times, when you would run into another tribe of people, you had to instantly assess are they Friend or Foe? You know, or, if I’m after the, you know, the same if I’m a hunter, and I’m after the same animal is another person – am I – do I have the skills and the higher skill sets to be able to, to get this animal to feed my family? So you’re making these


instantaneous judgments without any ability to assess. So I think that, that that instinct is still wired within us even though we go to the grocery store and buy our food now, and we just get mad at bad drivers. But we but we’re still wired that same way.


Mr. Jones 26:26

Correct. And so in the lifestyle, what that means is the same thing, right? Whether it’s competition, or whether it’s judging whether you’re going to be compatible with somebody.


Mrs. Jones 26:41

So like, at a meet and greet, for example, you know, you go in there and there’s always that one couple that everybody’s like drawn to so it’s kind of the same thing – you’re, you’re instantly like assessing and judging other people to see if you’re going to measure up or if, you know, or maybe you’re looking for other people and you’re assessing whether or not you’re going to be compatible. You’re doing this all on the fly.


Mr. Jones 27:06

Yeah. And and even when you’re flipping through speaking of Double Date Nation and lifestyle websites, when you’re flipping through profiles, and you see a couple of pictures and you read a paragraph or two, you’re instantly making that judgment or that assessment. You know, is this person going to be compatible with me or not? Or should I just move on?


Mrs. Jones 27:28

Right, right. I think that just knowing that we have these, like, internal, like, mechanisms in place to make these instant judgments, if you’re aware of that, maybe you can train yourself to take a breath and step back.


Mr. Jones 27:47 What a great idea.


Mrs. Jones 27:48

I know. Right? Okay. podcast over and we can have sex now.


Mr. Jones 27:52

Yeah. Well, I mean, we talked about you know, if you’re really going to find out if that initial judgment or assessment is accurate. There’s only one way to do that. And that’s to expend the time and the energy, you know, to understand and get to know that other person. Right?


Mrs. Jones 28:16 Right.


Mr. Jones 28:18

So that’s what we don’t have – during the day and during our lives, we don’t have time to do that, but in the lifestyle, we need to do that.


Mrs. Jones 28:27

So, how, how? Okay, so let’s say we’re at Desire. I can’t say lifestyle club because we never get to go. So Desire is something that I’m familiar with. So we’re at Desire, and let’s say we’ve been there for a couple days and then all of a sudden we see a new couple come in, you know, they have their street clothes on


and their backpacks and they’re going down to have some lunch before they check in. And we’re, we’re making that judgment.


Mr. Jones 28:55 Fresh meat.


Mrs. Jones 28:55

Yeah, the fresh meat. Oh, that Yeah. Okay, let’s just make it worse. They’ve got the yellow bracelets on. Cuz they’re newbies, right? Yeah. So they’re fresh meat. And we’re, we’re assessing and judging them, on whether or not we want to actually get the pool and dry off and go eat lunch and meet them.


Mr. Jones 29:00

Right? And what are we judging? Physical characteristics.


Mrs. Jones 29:15

Yeah, physical characteristics, you might be able to assess a little bit about their relationship just by body language and stuff.


Mr. Jones 29:26

Yeah. Like, are they holding hands? Are they talking with each other? Yeah. Do they look nervous? Does she look angry? Because she didn’t know where he was…


Mrs. Jones 29:34

Right? Did he drag her there under false pretenses? But yeah, so you’re you’re kind of like weighing all that.


Mr. Jones 29:41

Yeah, you can make that instant assessment that there’s something good or bad about the relationship. Is he tall? Is he short? What color is his skin? Does he have hair? What is he wearing? I mean, but all of that mostly right is observations from afar.


Mrs. Jones 30:00 Yeah, true.


Mr. Jones 30:01

No conversation at all.


Mrs. Jones 30:02 Right. Right.


Mr. Jones 30:05

So how do we know the difference between judgment and like assessment?


Mrs. Jones 30:10

Well, to be honest, you and I have been talking about this a lot. Because I don’t think …


Mr. Jones 30:17

By talking you mean arguing?



Mrs. Jones 30:19

No, no, no, no. There’s a difference between…


Mr. Jones 30:23 See.


Mrs. Jones 30:24 Here we go.


Mr. Jones 30:24 You’re doing it now.


Mrs. Jones 30:25

No, I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from, because I see judgment. I think it’s a vocabulary gap. I don’t think you and I have a difference of opinion gap. I think we have a difference in the way we’re explaining that or wording it, so, we’ve been kind of struggling on the direction that we wanted to go in because, like, for example, Mr. Jones is talking about judgment as a strong response to something. And I’m saying if a couple trots down the stairs from Desire on the way to lunch, and I haven’t seen em before, and I look at em and I say, ooh, they’re really hot or I say, I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s a strong response. I think that’s just me making an instantaneous assessment, which is not the wisest thing to do. But I don’t think I’m judging those people.


Mr. Jones 31:17 Okay.


Mrs. Jones 31:18

To me, if you want to know what I think about judging,


Mr. Jones 31:21

I’m actively listening.


Mrs. Jones 31:22

Okay. You’re a good husband. I think judgment comes into play in a negative fashion when I say, Oh, I would never play with somebody 20 years younger than me. I would never play with somebody that’s not my race. I would never play with somebody that, who knows, is soft swap because I’m a full swap couple. You know, never, never, never, or I’m always going to look for this type of person. You know, that’s going to bite you in the butt. Either by giving you a bad reputation in the lifestyle. Oh, well, they you know, they won’t do that or they gotta have this or you know, just if you’re too picky that makes you close minded. And that to me is when you become a Judgy McJudgerson.


Mr. Jones  32:12 So what… So, okay,


Mrs. Jones 32:16

Now Mr. Jones has to, like corral that and and frame it. Mr. Jones 32:18


Yeah. So if I’m making an assessment, and you’re saying that that’s a neutral statement, it’s not strong or it’s not judgment. And my assessment is, I’m not interested.


Mrs. Jones 32:29 Right.


Mr. Jones 32:30

And you compare that to me saying, I’m looking at that person, and I’m definitely not interested because I’m never going to do this because of their age. Isn’t there still something that’s triggering the, the negative in me?


Mrs. Jones 32:47

Yes, I think we have these, these boxes that we put people in, and I think when you start taking the packing tape and putting it across the box that you’ve put all these people in, that’s when you become judgy. You’re not going to let those people out of the box because they’re in the they’re too old box. Where you and I might be.


Mr. Jones 33:11

Let’s not, let’s not go there.


Mrs. Jones 33:13

We’re being real here, honey.


Mr. Jones 33:15

So why did we put them in the box to begin with?


Mrs. Jones 33:18

Because they’re not like us.


Mr. Jones 33:20

Okay, but we’re, we’re not attracted to them.


Mrs. Jones 33:23

Well, right there might not be chemistry. But a lot of times people judge other people because they’re not like them. I’m a good driver. He’s a bad driver. He’s an ass.


Mr. Jones 33:31

So what is it about people that are not like us that makes us have a negative assessment or judgment?


Mrs. Jones 33:39

Oh that could be tons of things.


Mr. Jones 33:40

Okay, now we’re getting somewhere.


Mrs. Jones 33:42

So it could be I find them intimidating. So therefore, I have to justify the fact that I’m not going to approach them. You know, they’re so pretty. They must be stuck up, or you look at people and they’re


like dripping in you know, diamonds or wealth or whatever. Oh, well, you know, you can tell they’re really rich. So they’re gonna be pretentious and snobby.


Mr. Jones 34:08

Now you’re being negative because you could look at somebody who’s really attractive and say, Oh my gosh, they’re just out of my league. They’re so beautiful.


Mrs. Jones 34:16

Right. That’s exactly what I’m getting at. If they’re not like you, your your natural instinct, and it’s back to that whole defense mechanism. You’re, you’re going to find a reason to not want to approach them.


Mr. Jones 34:29

Yeah. But what I’m trying to shoehorn in here is that we are attracted to people like us, because that’s who we’ve been surrounded by.


Mrs. Jones 34:43 They’re safe.


Mr. Jones 34:44

Well, in our neighborhoods,


Mrs. Jones 34:47

Well, not so much in our neighborhood.


Mr. Jones 34:51

Our family, our skin color, our religion, where we go to school. What we – the marketing stuff that’s put on the TV that or the magazine that we read, all of that is influencing us and helps us define who we’re attracted to. Right? So when we see something that falls outside of that, it’s unfamiliar. And so let’s just not even call it judgment, let’s call it assessment. Use your word. It’s something that I’ve never been exposed to. It’s not like me. So my tendency is to not spend the time to find out. So what are we saying about all of that?


Mrs. Jones 35:37

Well, that person’s being judgey.


Mr. Jones 35:40

Okay. So you were right. It was a communication issue, because that’s exactly…


Mrs. Jones 35:46

Did you hear that? He said I was right.


Mr. Jones 35:47

I can edit that out. So let me ask you personally. Have you met – okay, in the time that we’ve been in the lifestyle have have you – how have you handled these assessments yourself? Compared to like when we first got in the lifestyle compared to now?


Mrs. Jones 36:14


Oh, well, at first, you’re very much looking for people that are like you. Because like I just said they’re safe and you’re scared to death when you’re new. And, you know, so you’re looking for, for a situation that’s going to be comfortable.


Mr. Jones 36:32

Right. And isn’t that good? or is that bad?


Mrs. Jones 36:37 There’s nothing wrong.


Mr. Jones 36:38

There’s nothing wrong with that.


Mrs. Jones 36:39 Right.


Mr. Jones 36:40

Right. Because you’re scared. You’re already taking a chance, coming out of your comfort zone. Why would you… Why would you go way out of your comfort zone and try to connect with somebody who initially upon assessment or judgment that you wouldn’t be interested in? Right? So contrast that to now.


Mrs. Jones 37:00

Well, you know, now I think… I think it’s easier now because we’re kind of slow. You know, we’re very social. And we really are interested in getting to know people. So I, I find people interested, interesting, even if I don’t feel any chemistry with them. And sometimes over the course of a conversation, all of a sudden there is chemistry that develops. You know, but but again, I’m more interested in getting to know them. And then, you know, if we end up having a sexual connection, that’s great, but that isn’t really my main motivator now because – not that we’re all that but because we’ve been in the lifestyle for a while we have quite a few couples that we’ve maintained friendships with. So we we do have people that we can connect with when we want to. So we’re not constantly on the prowl – I guess – for new people, so therefore, I’m less anxious about making that connection which makes me more open minded. There. I got to finish my sentence.


Mr. Jones 38:20

Okay, let me try to Reader’s Digest that. Because you’re not so concerned about our relationship being affected by the lifestyle and we’ve met a lot of great people, it’s easier for us to step out and take the time to meet people that aren’t like us.


Mrs. Jones 38:37

Okay, yeah, you did a good job summarizing.


Mr. Jones 38:41

Okay. Did you hear that everyone? She said I did a good job.


Mrs. Jones 38:44

Oh, I think we like each other honey.


Mr. Jones 38:47

I mean, I can say personally, that I mean, let’s practically speaking like in, we live in Washington, DC. It’s a very diverse area and I’ve worked with people of all races, and so that, to me, that was a part of my comfort zone to begin with. But age was a little bit different. So I can say that initially when we got into the lifestyle, the first thing that came to my mind when I saw somebody in their 20s or early 30s, was that they’re our kids’ age, and those words, they’re our kids’ age, almost gave me like a built in excuse not to go there.


Mrs. Jones 39:31 Right.


Mr. Jones 39:33

And so, but what we’ve learned, at least what I’ve learned is that there are younger couples who have solid relationships, who have a lot in common with us that I would have never otherwise learned had we not taken the time to sit down and and get to know them.


Mrs. Jones 39:54

Right. I mean, I agree with you 100%


Mr. Jones 39:58

Right. And who I find attractive. Another confession. Okay, I grew up with Farrah Fawcett. She hung on my bedroom wall. Charlie’s Angels. I mean that – that’s what I saw on TV. That’s what I saw in the movies. That’s what my friends carried around with them. And so that’s what I was attracted to. So, so initially, even though I worked in a diverse area, it never crossed my mind, like I could be attracted to somebody from a different race. It just, it wasn’t a part of who I was. But I’ll tell you now, I have seen some beautiful women of all races…


Mrs. Jones 40:46

You played with them too.


Mr. Jones 40:49

…and and it is a learning experience and a growing experience. But I think the point though, is that we should not have the expectation that those first getting in the lifestyle – we shouldn’t judge them, since we’re talking about this, for being judgey.


Mrs. Jones 41:11 Right?


Mr. Jones 41:12

Because that’s where we were. And so when someone comes across as angry at me because they think I judge them, I’m like, Dude, what are you talking about? I don’t even know what I’m doing here. I’m not even ready to play with somebody that’s my own race and age. And you’re judging me for whatever.

And so it’s not – It’s not putting yourself in that person’s shoes. And so there’s that automatic tendency to judge that they are a bad person because they shouldn’t do that. And in the lifestyle, hearing a message like that can turn you off from the lifestyle.


Mrs. Jones 41:55


Yes, they can. And, you know, … I don’t worry, but I always wonder, you know what’s going through people’s minds as they’re getting up the nerve, because we we talked to so many people that are brand new to the lifestyle and are getting ready to have their first experience and they say any words of wisdom, you know, before we go to our first club or our first hotel takeover or, you know, whatever the event may be, and, you know, just come with an open mind and that’s SO easy to say. And it’s SO hard to carry out.


Mr. Jones 42:31

Right. You know what, I think we should talk about San Diego a little bit more.


Mrs. Jones 42:36

Oh, well, we we kind of had that going into San Diego because – so we had 25 couples travel with us. And we had – there was a lot of built up… in the planning and you know, so we talked about having the cocktail room and one of the suites and then we talked about having a massage room……………………………….. There were

three massage tables. And then of course, all the beautiful massage oil that was brought.


Mr. Jones 43:05

That freaked some people out.


Mrs. Jones 43:07

Yeah. And then, oh, and then we had a couple that had a lot of experience in the BDSM community. And they were talking about flogging. And then a lot of people got really intrigued by flogging. So they were like, Oh, I think you should do a flogging demonstration. And he’s like, Well, yeah, if people want that, I’d be glad to do that. Well, then, some of the nervous newbies were like, Holy smokes, what am I getting myself into? So then we kind of had a backpedal a little and say, You know what, there’s gonna be something for everyone.    and some people do have issues with flogging because they might have had

a negative experience with abuse of some sort, and they don’t respond well to that. So I’m like, you know what you can hang out with me in the cocktail room. We’re going to just drink and chat. Then the massage room, you know, you can go in the massage room and watch. You don’t have to participate if that’s not your comfort level. So, you know, we were trying to create an environment where there was something for everyone. But then the new people that had never had any kind of experience before, and there were quite a few of them, were really letting themselves get intimidated by the more experienced people that were like, really into oh my gosh, the massage was gonna be so amazing. And oh my gosh, I can’t believe I’m going to bring my flogger. And there was just so much excitement and build up. It was freakin some people out, and I don’t think there was really judgment going on between the newbies and the experienced people, but, you know, if the experienced people hadn’t been the amazing people they were and they sense that and they reached back and you know, and we were joking around, Well, we’re going to be gentle with you. There could have been some judgment like, Oh this crowd’s going to be too crazy.


Mr. Jones 45:00

Well, the first thing that happened was we said, as mama bear, we said, trust us. We’re gonna hold your hand, we’re going to make sure nothing happens.


Mrs. Jones 45:11

We’re going to make sure everything’s a comfortable setting. Mr. Jones 45:14


Yeah. So they had that reassurance going in. And then secondly, let me tell you what I observed. So, in the massage room, there were people in the massage room that were nervous. There were people in the massage room that probably didn’t want to be in the massage room. It was a stretch for them to be in there. As people hopped up on the table, and I have to admit I was………………………………………………. But when I wasn’t on the table,

I was observing the room, and the room went from being a little bit nervous, you know, the nervous laughter and things like that, to once the massage started, people started relaxing, and I’m talking about two people just around the room, not the ones on the table. And you could just tell that people were like, Oh, this is really nice. Somebody’s not going to attack me. Nobody picked me up and threw me on the table. Nobody’s forcing me over there to do that.


Mrs. Jones 46:09

No, and the massages they were sensual massages, but there, there was no sex in the room.


Mr. Jones 46:16

Right. And people would walk up to the table and start massaging if they wanted to. And so it really changed – the atmosphere in the room changed and everybody got really comfortable. But I think even what’s cooler is that our friends that had the BDSM skills…


Mrs. Jones 46:32 They were amazing.


Mr. Jones 46:33

They were amazing. So what happened was they ended up doing a flogging, kind of a demonstration in the room


Mrs. Jones 46:40 On Saturday night.


Mr.  Jones  46:41 On Saturday night…


Mrs. Jones 46:42

Which was perfect because people had had a whole nother day to connect.


Mr. Jones 46:47

Yes. Right. And so we knew them. Everybody trusted them. They got these floggers out and their tools and everything else. Their accoutrements. And they were looking for volunteers. And so somebody stepped up and volunteered. And you know, you make a judgment. I am not into whatever. Kink. I’m not into flogging. I’m not into whatever. But if you are in that room and you watch somebody say, Yes, I trust you, and I want you to do that to me. And then you watch the gentleman or the lady holding the flogger say, Okay, this is what’s going to happen. Here’s what I’m using. This is where I’m going to start. This is how we’re going to communicate. You’re going to say this word, if it’s okay, you’re going to say this  word if you want more, and you’re going to say this word, if you want me to stop, I’m going to check in with you. Your spouse is going to be standing right here. And all of that dialogue happened and you could just see people relax. And then it started up, and the presentation of what was stated actually came about, and as more and more people volunteered for that, some willingly, and then some of us maybe not that willing [Laughs]


Mrs. Jones 47:59 You did good Honey,


Mr. Jones 48:01

We’ll talk about that later. It became like, Wow, that’s pretty cool. You know what, maybe I’m not into that. But that person is definitely into it, and I can see what she’s getting out of it. And I’m not going to judge that or assess that as something that’s wrong, or that people that do that, they’re weird. Because we watched people do it and we watched people learn. And then – what was the conversation that we had with the gentleman that the couple that was doing the flogging their experience…


Mrs. Jones 48:31

Well, their initial background was a BDSM background. So they would go to those types of events. And when they found out that they were also part of the swinging lifestyle, that other people in that BDSM community, not all the other people, but some of the other people would be a little put off by that. So they were being judged by a different like genre of, you know, I guess…


Mr. Jones 49:06 Sex positive?


Mrs. Jones 49:07

Yeah, sex positivity, just another different way of expressing your sexual desires. And there are all these like little sub genres.


Mr. Jones 49:17

Right. So what I’m saying is not only did the people who volunteered to be flogged have to step out of their comfort zone and trust. But the two people that were doing the flogging had had a negative experience where they were judged. And, and they were taking a risk in offering this up again, because what if everyone in that room said, oh, we’re swingers we’re not BDSM, then that would have that would have damaged them. But there was none of that. It was curiosity. And part of the reason why, and you and I talked about this afterwards, is because guess what? We all invested the time and the energy to understand and get to know that couple. And so when they had floggers in their hands, they weren’t BDSM people. They were Joe and Mary. We know them, we trust them. And therefore we’re going to go about doing this.


Mrs. Jones 49:36

And they weren’t defensive. They were very educational. And you could ask them anything. And they were just an open book. And they just had the perfect personalities to demonstrate that and to really expose people to something brand new. It was amazing.


Mr. Jones 50:31

So I think in the, like, the macro level, you know, we exposed a lot of newbie people to both swinger and BDSM stuff in the same room, they probably don’t even know there’s a difference.


Mrs. Jones 50:47

It’s just a different way to play. Mr. Jones 50:48


It’s like when you grow up in a household with two fathers or you grow up in a school with a black teacher, it’s normal. Or you have a friend that’s gay. You don’t think of it as being abnormal because it’s it’s a part of your beginning. So I kind of felt pretty good about that, that our folks had this experience, and it was a positive thing and now they’re not going to have this bias against people who like flogging.


Mrs. Jones 51:17

And the kink community, right. No, I thought that was super cool, and that was kind of how the weekend ended. I just thought it was that was kind of like a crescendo, literally.


Mr. Jones 51:27

Right. And I think as we start to close up, I talked about when we did our workshop…


Mrs. Jones 51:37 In the tent?


Mr. Jones 51:38

In the tent. And we got home and we got an email from one of our guests who was there, and she sent us a saying that I wanted to share.


Mrs. Jones 51:50 Yeah, it’s pretty cool.


Mr. Jones 51:52

So this is quote, “It’s easy to judge. It’s more difficult to understand. Understanding requires compassion, patience, and a willingness to believe that good hearts sometimes choose poor methods. Through judgment we separate. And through understanding, we grow.” And if you were to put this mantra in the lifestyle, this is what we should all be striving for.


Mrs. Jones 52:22 Yes. Absolutely.


Mr. Jones 52:24

So, in the real – in the outside world where we’re expected, we put up with this judgment all the time, and we do it ourselves, I think we could use the lifestyle as a way to teach people how to not separate, but grow together.


Mrs. Jones 52:41

Right. And, you know, not everybody in that room walked away into flogging.


Mr. Jones 52:46

Absolutely not, I’m one of them.


Mrs. Jones 52:50

You know, it might not be your thing, but everybody was curious and respectful. And, and I think they appreciated the exposure to it. Because, I mean, it was beautiful and it was hot because it was done right. And it was done with emotion and compassion.


Mr. Jones 53:07


You know, people can’t fake being turned on.


Mrs. Jones 53:10 No.


Mr. Jones 53:11

I watched a woman who I know very well,


Mrs. Jones 53:13

Yeah, one of our good friends.


Mr. Jones 53:15

I watched her back get red, and her ass get red, and her husband was standing there and she was clearly enjoying herself.


Mrs. Jones 53:22

I know. She was so beautiful. And not only could this gentleman flog, he did the rope work on her. And he took this beautiful rope and he essentially made a teddy out of rope. It was just all string. And it was so beautifully done. It was absolute perfection. And it just really enhanced her body. And then she had that on when he was flogging her and it was just, visually it was just so cool. Yeah, it was pretty amazing. I mean, that was really the first time you and I had been exposed at that level. And I learned a lot that night, it was really interesting. I think we’ve managed to take something negative and turn it into something positive.


Mr. Jones 54:13 Hopefully.


Mrs. Jones 54:14 I hope so.


Mr. Jones 54:15

If we didn’t, don’t judge us for it,


Mrs. Jones 54:17

I know. [Laughs] So I think that the big takeaway is, you know, try to be aware that there’s a difference between assessing and judging. You know, those words. There’s so many times you hear, like a teacher or a parent say, you know, never say never, or, you know, don’t say, oh, everybody else does it, or this always happens, those words can be very divisive. You know, so don’t say, I’ll never play with anybody older than me, or I’ll never play with anybody younger than me or a different race than me or a different play style than me. You know, that whole never, never, never is going to bite you in the ass. And it’s going to potentially make you miss some opportunities.


Mr. Jones 55:04

Yeah, and I think my closing thoughts are from both sides of it. So if I’m going to choose to assess or judge, and I don’t want to spend time with somebody else, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. It’s my choice to do that. I’m the one that may be losing out. But it’s still my choice not to engage with somebody else. If I’m on the other side of it, and somebody – if I feel like somebody is judging me, or if I


feel like somebody has said, I am too old or too tall or too white, or whatever that too is, if I spend any time at all worrying about that, I’m just hurting myself.


Mrs. Jones 55:48

Yeah, you gotta let it roll off your back.


Mr. Jones 55:50

Yeah, I am not going to take somebody else’s judgment and spend a minute on it in my mind and in my life. If I allow that to happen, then I’m allowing that person’s decision to judge me or assess me, to influence my happiness and the decisions and choices that I make. I think that’s where we get into a lot of trouble is we get angry and defensive when somebody judges us and guess what we do? We judge them right back. And so when you get into that cycle…


Mrs. Jones 56:29

Two wrongs don’t make a right.


Mr. Jones 56:30

…you get into, you get into the separation that this quote is talking about, we’re separating. So you and I, for example, if somebody says we’re too…, no one would say it, but if we perceive that nobody wants to …this couple doesn’t want to be with us because of our age, that’s fine. We don’t lose any sleep over that. We just go meet somebody else. There’s plenty of people out there.


Mrs. Jones 56:56

Right and it does sting at first. I mean, Come on, like, let’s be real, it’s not a good feeling to know that you’re being judged for something that you can’t control. I can’t control the fact that I’m old. I can’t control the fact that I’m white. I can’t control the fact that I live in this part of the country, you know, if people are going to judge me because of that, you know, there’s there certain things out of your control. So you just have to acknowledge that and let it roll off your back. The things that you can control, you know, as far as, like, how you interact with people, or, you know, how open your mind is, you know, if you’re getting judged because of that kind of stuff, then, you know, maybe that’s an opportunity to kind of reflect.


Mr. Jones 57:41

Right. And in real world, where it’s your boss or a family member or a friend and you can’t just walk away, obviously, you need to decide how to approach that and how to improve that relationship. But I can guarantee you that being judgmental back is not going to solve the problem.


Mrs. Jones 58:01 No, it’s not.


Mr. Jones 58:02

Yeah. So anyway, let’s try to – should we sing Kumbaya now?


Mrs. Jones 58:08

Practically I feel like I’ve totally gone into mom mode. “Never say never.” [Laughs] Mr. Jones 58:12


And, I’m only gonna say this once – I know we’ve talked about this ad nauseum. But when we’re in the lifestyle, we should be held to a higher level of accountability for not judging others.


Mrs. Jones 58:28 Yeah, that’s true.


Mr. Jones 58:29

Just like if you’re a Christian, you should be held to a higher – to love one another. So it’s easy to say, if you’re going to judge me, I’m going to judge you. But I’m just suggesting that because all of us have made this choice – We’ve opened our minds, and we are stepping into this world. And we’re learning about it, and we don’t want others to judge us for it. We should be a lot more sensitive to judging others. That’s that’s my point.


Mrs. Jones 58:58

I mean, you might not agree with other people, it might not be – their thing might not be your thing. But just let it be.


Mr. Jones 59:06

Right. Okay. Well, that’s judgment. What other world problems can we solve tonight?


Mrs. Jones 59:14

I know, that’s a big one.


Mr. Jones 59:16

Well, when we come back, hopefully we’re gonna think of a snapshot or two to share with you. You know, the thing about it was when you’re sick for seven weeks in a row, there’s not many snapshot opportunities.


Mrs. Jones 59:27

I know. It’s been kinda rough.


Mr. Jones 59:30

Well, we’ll be back in a minute or two, depending on how long it takes Mrs. Jones to come up with a snapshot.


Mrs. Jones 59:36 I got one.


Mr. Jones 59:37

Okay, we’ll be right back. [Music]


Mrs. Jones 59:54

Welcome back to snapshots. I want to go first.


Mr. Jones  59:58 Okay. You’re the boss.


Mrs. Jones 1:00:02


So my snapshot has to be about San Diego cuz I mean, I’m still flying high too. Just so much fun.


Mr. Jones 1:00:08 It’s quite the trip.


Mrs. Jones 1:00:09

It just totally exceeded my expectations. So not that I had expectations – oh I shouldn’t have said that. Oops, my hopes. But anyway, um, you know, like Mr. Jones said earlier in the episode, you know, we, we are very concerned about hosting and making sure everybody’s having a good time and everybody’s connected and nobody’s feeling like, you know, lost or, or whatever. So we really try to focus on our guests. And I remember, especially when, like I refer to earlier, you know, a lot of people were like, Oh my gosh, there’s gonna be a massage room. There’s gonna be a flogging demonstration. Like what am I getting myself into? So I truly was kind of in mama bear mode, and I knew who the newbies were, to kind of keep an eye on, and luckily, my job was quite easy because there were no shrinking wallflowers hiding in the corner. Everybody was connecting extremely well. But I remember thinking to myself, well, I’m not able to go in the massage room because, you know, I don’t need to be in there. I can just stay in the cocktail room or the quiet room and just kind of socialize with people. Well, the cocktail room kind of emptied out and I’m like, Where’s everybody? So you and I wondered, you know, we kind of stuck our heads out in the hallway. And then that’s how you and I ended up in the massage room. And then I’m in the massage room. And …nobody was on the table when we first walked in, right?


Mr. Jones 1:01:40 No.


Mrs. Jones 1:01:41

So it was just kind of social time. And then somehow, somebody got on the table. I wasn’t the first one, right. I had had all those shots of Licor 43, I might not remember.


Mr. Jones 1:01:52 No.


Mrs. Jones 1:01:52

But anyway, so then the massages kind of started back up and I was like, Oh, wow. So I walked over and I was kind of maybe, I don’t know, helping a little bit, but I wasn’t like super involved. And then all of a sudden, I realized that it was okay. And I could stop being in like host mode, and just enjoy myself because I’m looking around the room and everybody was just like, there was a lot of just really positive energy. And then the next thing I know, which is the exact opposite of what I thought would happen is I got on the massage table. And I was really nervous. Like, that’s stupid. Like, I’ve done that before. I’ve been naked at Desire, but I had to take my clothes off in front of everybody. Like Mrs. Jones had to take her dress and her panties off. Because everybody knows I always wear panties. And I had to get on the massage table and I’m like, wow, I’m going to be naked in front of all these people. And they’re going to touch me. And – you and I haven’t even talked about this. I was terrified. But of course, once I got up there, and all that positive energy started flowing through my body…


Mr. Jones 1:02:51 Well, nobody left.


Mrs. Jones 1:03:09


Yeah, nobody was like, Ew! Nobody left. And then it just ended up being a just a great experience because then I was able to trust the situation. Not that I didn’t trust the people. I just felt weird being up there. I didn’t anticipate doing that. And then I’m like, how did I end up, you know, being the one on the table because I don’t like being the center of attention. And, but I liked that a lot. It was really hot.


Mr. Jones 1:03:38

Yeah. Thank you for sacrificing yourself.


Mrs. Jones 1:03:41

I know. It was. Yeah, there were a lot of sexy people in the room, and they were touching me.


Mr. Jones 1:03:46

I know. After you got up there, then I felt obligated to get up there too.


Mrs. Jones 1:03:50

And I don’t know who was massaging my feet, but holy shit. They knew what they were doing.


Mr. Jones 1:03:55

It wasn’t me. I don’t think I massaged you.


Mrs. Jones 1:03:59 You didn’t?


Mr. Jones 1:04:00

No, because you had quite the crowd. I didn’t want to – I didn’t want to steal any real estate. I’ve massaged you before.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:06

I was selfish because when you got on the massage table I was at the good place.


Mr. Jones 1:04:13 Yes.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:14 I got the good stuff.


Mr. Jones 1:04:15 Yeah, you did.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:16 Yeah. That was fun.


Mr. Jones 1:04:17

That was um…Yeah. Yeah. My hands started wandering a little bit when I was getting my massage.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:29

I think my ass was one of the assets you were playing with.


Mr. Jones 1:04:31

Well, yeah, I had one on each side of me.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:33

Yeah, you did. You’re lucky guy.


Mr. Jones 1:04:35 Yeah.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:37

No, that was super fun. I just really enjoyed it. You know, you were the only guy that got on the massage table when we were in there. I know guys were on there earlier but you were the only guy I got to massage. I might have to rectify that in a future meet and greet.


Mr. Jones 1:04:54 Definitely.


Mrs. Jones 1:04:54 Yeah.


Mr. Jones 1:04:56

Well, so I was also – I was not the only other guy that got flogged too.


Mrs. Jones 1:05:01 No you weren’t.


Mr. Jones 1:05:02

So my snapshot is about me being flogged. And if I’m being honest, I really was a brat. I didn’t want to do it. You know, and I kind of got asked once or twice and I kept saying no. Well, they didn’t really give up. I said, you know, okay, you know, I’ll do this.


Mrs. Jones 1:05:22

Well, you could’ve used your words.


Mr. Jones 1:05:24

I could have. I’m not blaming anybody. But I didn’t have the right attitude going into it. So I ended up taking my shirt off. I still had my jeans on. And … it was a gentleman that was flogging me. And he was very good. He explained everything to me.


Mrs. Jones 1:05:40

And he was explaining everything to me. I mean, I was right there with him.


Mr. Jones 1:05:43 Yeah.


Mrs. Jones 1:05:44

And he had me participating a little bit.


Mr. Jones 1:05:46

Right. And as he changed instruments, and he told me, this one’s going to be – sting a little bit more than the other one. This one’s going to be a thud. You know, this is going to do this and, you know, and he would say, you know, how does it feel? You know, are you okay? And he was checking in and all that stuff. And it really, he was flogging me pretty hard, and it didn’t hurt. But it really didn’t do anything for me.


Mrs. Jones 1:06:10 Didn’t turn you on?


Mr. Jones 1:06:11

No, it didn’t turn me on at all. But I think part of it was because I felt a little bit self conscious like I was on display.


Mrs. Jones 1:06:17

You don’t like being the center of attention either.


Mr. Jones 1:06:19

I don’t like, yeah, I don’t like being the center of attention. So that probably had something to do with it. However, when I was finished…


Mrs. Jones 1:06:28

Here comes the snapshot.


Mr. Jones 1:06:30

…and I thanked him because he … did a good job. He did a good job. And I turned around, and here was one of our beautiful new friends. who by the way, the night before came in in a red corset. I think it was a red corset. And she was a little bashful because she hadn’t – she was wearing this corset, and I was like, Are you kidding me?


Mrs. Jones 1:06:54

Her body was made for a corset.


Mr. Jones 1:06:57

You look fabulous. Anyway. She distracted me. So anyway, we got finished. And she came over to me and she said, Well, how did you like it? And I said, Well, you know, it was not a big deal. I don’t – I think I had a neutral experience. She said, Really? I think it was – just watching you, I was hot. And I said, Oh, really? And then all of a sudden, because she told me that, that she thought it was hot, all of a sudden, my memory of it got a whole lot better.


Mrs. Jones 1:07:31 Huh, that’s interesting.


Mr. Jones 1:07:33

Yeah. So I think what it is for me is that I had no relationship with the leather. You know it was hitting me. And I was facing a wall. And it was just me and the flogger. But as soon as as soon as she said it was hot, it was like I had a connection with somebody. I need I need that human connection. I need to connect and maybe, you know, I don’t know if it was a female flogger it would have been any different. I


didn’t have any problems with the way he was flogging me. But when she told me that it was like, Okay, well, that turns me on. If I know that it’s turning somebody else on then then it’s going to turn me on.

And then I thought, well, I wonder if the whole experience would have been different. If like, she would have come up to me and said, You know what, you know, what really turns me on, is when guys get flogged, because I probably would have been thinking about her being turned on. And then the hitting may have turned me on. I don’t know, but maybe that’s on my bucket list for next time. So, hopefully you’re listening. And you know who I’m talking about, young lady. So you can come to the next one. We can do it a do over.


Mrs. Jones 1:08:46

Oh, that’s an excellent plan, Mr. Jones.


Mr. Jones 1:08:49 Yeah.


Mrs. Jones  1:08:50 Way to reel ’em right in.


Mr. Jones 1:08:52

Yeah. So it was it was really interesting because if I don’t, I think if she would not have said that to me, it would have been kind of a, Eh, I don’t think I’ll ever do that again.


Mrs. Jones 1:09:01

Yeah. Now, so now your mind is open.


Mr. Jones 1:09:05

Well, and it’s, you know, when when a when a couple – I was listening to That Couple Next Door today, and J and K were talking about sitting down with another couple and talking as a as a group, what they wanted to try. And they were saying everything that we threw out there everybody. Somebody said, Yeah, I’d really like to do that. That’s what turns me on. If I know that somebody else wants to do it, it’s gonna turn me on. But if you ask me, hey, do you want to get flogged? I would say, Well, no, no, not really. That’s what I like about the connectivity in the lifestyle, the way the way that you and I approach it is connecting with other people.


Mrs. Jones 1:09:44 Yeah.


Mr. Jones 1:09:46 All right.


Mrs. Jones 1:09:47 Okay. Well,


Mr. Jones 1:09:49

So if you want to go to Atlanta, I can tell you that we’re going to limit the number of people because I think any more than 80 or 100 people is is going to be too big.


Mrs. Jones 1:09:59


Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, for the majority of the weekend, we had 25 couples, and it was a nice group. You you, I think I pretty much had a real conversation with just about everybody. You know, when it gets too big, then you don’t have the opportunity to, to make all those connections.


Mr. Jones 1:10:16

Yeah. So we’re going to try to put a limit on it. But if you’re not, and and obviously if you’re in our membership community, you’ve you’ve already got the invitation and you can indicate that you want to go. If you’re not in our community, well, you can join our community, or you can go to our website and put your name on the events page for Atlanta, and we’ll send you an email about how you can attend if we have room.


Mrs. Jones 1:10:37

We have a super venue picked out.


Mr. Jones 1:10:40

It’s really cool. Yes, it is a really cool hotel. Speaking of our membership, we do offer three levels of membership, a monthly membership, a semi annual and an annual. You can find that information on our website.


Mrs. Jones 1:10:55

Also on our website, we’ve got a host of mini courses to choose from. If you’re looking for just a specific topic to kind of dive into. And then of course, we have our full Signature Course that kind of takes you from what is the lifestyle to hey, let’s throw a house party. Beginning to end.


Mr. Jones 1:11:17

And not only can you join Kasidie for a free trial on our website, but you can join


Mrs. Jones 1:11:22 Double Date Nation.


Mr. Jones 1:11:25

Go to our website and you’ll find that there get three months for free to come in and take a look around and I think you’re really going to like what you see.


Mrs. Jones 1:11:33

Yep. And then you know, Mr. Jones mentioned earlier that our November trip was almost sold out, but you can book a trip to Desire at any time through our website. We really appreciate the support. You can – both Desire resorts, Temptation resort, and then they’re offering a host of cruises coming up too. So all that information’s on our website. It’s kind of one stop shopping.


Mr. Jones 1:11:55

Yes, and you can message us through our website or you can send me an email at [email protected] or [email protected] and of course our website is wegottathing.com. You can follow us on Twitter at wegottathing.


Mrs. Jones 1:12:14

And then we also have Instagram and Pinterest accounts. It just kind of blows my mind.


Mr. Jones 1:12:20

Me too. And a Facebook account as well.


Mrs. Jones 1:12:22 Oh, that’s right.


Mr. Jones 1:12:23

So thanks for listening. We are Mr. and Mrs. Jones and we’ve got a thing.


Mrs. Jones 1:12:27 What’s your thing?[/vc_column_text][/vc_tta_section][/vc_tta_accordion][/vc_column][/vc_row]