We all agree that consent is a bedrock principle in the lifestyle, but most conversations around this topic focus on verbal consent only. In episode 69, we talk about consent for swinger sex by using words but also through non-verbal cues…as well as giving yourself consent.

 

As always, this episode of We Gotta Thing is presented in three segments:

Segment 1 | Keeping Up with the Joneses
Segment 2Consent for Swinger Sex: More Than Words
Segment 3 | Our Sexy Snapshots

If you enjoy this episode, be sure to check out all of our podcast episodes!

Want more We Gotta Thing content? Be sure to also check out our articles about swinging on Medium.

[/vc_column_text][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row][vc_column][vc_tta_accordion][vc_tta_section tab_id=”1614871843045-d5c1a88b-49d6″ title=”Episode Transcript”][vc_column_text]Mr. Jones 0:01  

This podcast contains explicit language and content and is for mature audiences only. 

Mrs. Jones 0:06  

Hey, you teenagers out there, if you’re under 18. This show is more for your parents. So now that you  have that mental picture stuck in your head, put some music on and get back to doing your homework. 

Mr. Jones 0:17  

We’re a longtime married couple who’s decided to chronicle our personal adventures and share our sex  positive discussions as we navigate our way through the swinging lifestyle.  

Mrs. Jones 0:27  

Care to join us? [Music] 

Mr. Jones 0:46  

Hello, everyone. I’m Mr. Jones. 

Mrs. Jones 0:48  

And I’m Mrs. Jones and we want to welcome you to Episode 69 of the We Gotta Thing podcast. 

Mr. Jones 0:53  

Consent. 

Mrs. Jones 0:54  

More than words, it’s the title of a song and whoa, wait a minute. 

Mr. Jones 0:59  

I’ll be editing this part out. 

Mrs. Jones 1:01  

No, you will not.  

Mr. Jones 1:02  

Yes I will.  

Mrs. Jones 1:02  

Not even. Mr. Jones came up with the title, and it’s the title of a song.  

Mr. Jones 1:06  

Okay. Anyway, we’ve… 

Mrs. Jones 1:09  

And you actually have sung the song. 

Mr. Jones 1:11  

That’s true, at a wedding. 

Mrs. Jones 1:12 

At a wedding.  

Mr. Jones 1:13  

That’s true. I forgot about that. 

Mrs. Jones 1:14  

Good friend of yours. That was a whole long time ago.  

Mr. Jones 1:17  

Yes.  

Mrs. Jones 1:20  

They’re still married.  

Mr. Jones 1:21  

Speaking of that, happy podcastaversary. 

Mrs. Jones 1:24  

I know. 

Mr. Jones 1:25  

Five years. 

Mrs. Jones 1:26  

Five years. Who woulda thunk it?  

Mr. Jones 1:28  

I know. And six years in the lifestyle. I think we might know a thing or two. 

Mrs. Jones 1:35  

All learned the hard way. But that’s okay. 

Mr. Jones 1:38  

Yeah, so we’re going to talk about consent tonight. And this is something that a lot of people have talked  about in the lifestyle – a lot of podcasts have talked about, and we have had this on our list to talk about  for a while and were waiting for the right opportunity. 

Mrs. Jones 1:51  

Right. We wanted to be able to frame it so that it was kind of authentic to, to our journey. And and I  think we have finally I had enough insight where we feel like we can kind of speak to it to to make it  relevant to to not only us but to our listeners. 

Mr. Jones 2:11  

Yeah, but before we get to that though, in just a couple of days – I can’t believe it’s been a year but we’re  going back to Desire again. 

Mrs. Jones 2:20 

I know. I know. Six years since we went there the first time. It’s amazing. Yeah, like I I did the laundry  yesterday and that was it. That’s the laundry – we’re not doing any more laundry. Suitcases are out.  

Mr. Jones 2:34  

Yep. We’re getting ready to pack. 

Mrs. Jones 2:35  

It’s amazing how much stuff you pack to go to a clothing optional resort.  

Mr. Jones 2:38  

Yeah, especially you ladies and your shoes.  

Mrs. Jones 2:40  

I know. But you know you like it.  

Mr. Jones 2:44  

I do like it. Especially the boots. We’re gonna – I would much rather leave my boots… 

Mrs. Jones 2:48  

My over the knee thigh high boots. They take up extra room.  

Mr. Jones 2:52  

I know. They’re sexy.  

Mrs. Jones 2:52  

And you never complain about me putting those in the pile.  

Mr. Jones 2:54  

No. You can leave some of the other stuff but… 

Mrs. Jones 2:57  

I have silver shoes. I have to take red shoes just for – they have like a couple’s movie star theme night.  And we’re going to be Sandy and Danny from Grease. So I have to take red heels and black leather  leather pants and… 

Mr. Jones 3:14  

Oh, that’s sexy.  

Mrs. Jones 3:15  

Yeah, I gotta do the big curly fuck me hair. 

Mr. Jones 3:18  

I know and I got a nice pre-Desire fashion show last night. 

Mrs. Jones 3:23  

I know like, lingerie night. Like what lingerie am I gonna wear? Corset night. Which corset do you like  better? 

Mr. Jones 3:29  

I approved everything. I don’t think I was much help. 

Mrs. Jones 3:33  

That’s what I was just gonna say like, at some point you have to say, pack this one. Not that one. 

Mr. Jones 3:38  

Honey, you look good in everything.  

Mrs. Jones 3:40  

Oh, you’re such a well trained husband. Thank you for that. I’ll take it. 

Mr. Jones 3:46  

It led to some pretty good sex afterwards.  

Mrs. Jones 3:48  

It definitely did. 

Mr. Jones 3:50  

So we’re looking forward to seeing about 60 or 70 of our closest couple friends a few days at Desire. And  speaking of Desire, we are – we are announcing tonight our Desire 2020 week, which is November 14  through the 21st. 

Mrs. Jones 4:07  

Yes, we are in a rut. We always go the full week before Thanksgiving.  

Mr. Jones 4:11  

Well, we’ve always gone up until this point. Yeah. 

Mrs. Jones 4:15  

So that’s what we’re doing again next year. It just – it fits into our schedule well, and it’s just, I, you  know, I think once people get there, I think they really appreciate the escape from reality before, you  know, going home and just having it hit ya.  

Mr. Jones 4:29  

Yeah. So we already have a link up on our website. If you want to travel with us, and I’ve said this before  the past couple of years, this will sell out. And we had 10 or 15 couples on a waiting list this year. So go  ahead and check out our website and book through our link to be on the official guest list for November  14 through 21st. of 2020 for our Desire trip. We had a big announcement this week. We our next We  Gotta Thing event – our weekend event is going to be the weekend of February 6 through the 9th. That’s  a Thursday night through a Sunday at 2020. in Austin, Texas.  

Mrs. Jones 5:11  

Yes, I have been doing… 

Mr. Jones 5:14  

Working your ass off.

Mrs. Jones 5:15  

I have. And I have had three other couples that live in the Austin area helping us come up with like, the  perfect hotel to book and the restaurant and just some of the fun, different events that we’re going to  do throughout the weekend. And it’s kind of growing a little bit like not size wise, per se, but we’re going  to actually start it on Thursday night this time. 

Mr. Jones 5:38  

Yeah, we’re expanding the weekend. We’re going to start on Thursday night. We’re going to do an extra  workshop on Friday morning about erotic journaling with your partner. And we are going to do a group  dinner. So we’re adding a few more things, but we’re going to keep it to 50 couples. So there is a link on  the events section of our website. If you think you might be interested, it’s open right now for  registration for those in our private community, and then on December 1, we’re going to open it up for  everyone else.  

Mrs. Jones 6:09  

December 2.  

Mr. Jones 6:10  

Okay. December 2. 

Mrs. Jones 6:11  

Yeah.  

Mr. Jones 6:12  

All right.  

Mrs. Jones 6:12  

We need to come home from Vegas first.  

Mr. Jones 6:14  

Oh, right. Yeah, we expect that that’s going to sell out too. We’re going to go to a lifestyle club on  Saturday night. We’ve got a group dinner on Friday night. We’ve got all kinds of things planned. 

Mrs. Jones 6:25  

Yeah, we’ve actually rented a whole section of a restaurant. And we’re – like an upscale Tex Mex  restaurant, and we’re going to do a group dinner in a private setting on Friday night. Actually, for people  rolling into town Thursday, we’re going to go to like a comedy club and – so we got all kinds of fun stuff  planned. 

Mr. Jones 6:43  

That’s gonna be great. 

Mrs. Jones 6:44  

Catherine’s coming again. So we’re super excited about that. So I’m sure you and Catherine and I will put  our heads together and come up with something meaningful to talk about. 

Mr. Jones 6:55  

I figured out why Catherine comes to all of our events.

Mrs. Jones 6:57  

Because she has a crush on us? 

Mr. Jones 6:59  

No. Well, me.  

Mrs. Jones 7:01  

Does her husband have a crush on me?  

Mr. Jones 7:03  

Well, whatever. 

Mrs. Jones 7:05  

If you’ve never met Catherine and her lovely, extremely handsome husband. Yeah, you’ve missed out. 

Mr. Jones 7:12  

Yeah. So we’re looking forward to that.  

Mrs. Jones 7:13  

She’s brains and beauty.  

Mr. Jones 7:14  

Yeah, I know. So – keeping up with the Joneses. Enough for the business. All of that information is on our  website. So keeping up with the Joneses, we just got back from a surprise birthday party for one of our  community members in Kansas City. And I am drinking. What’s it called? Rigor? 

Mrs. Jones 7:36  

Rieger’s.  

Mr. Jones 7:37  

Rieger’s bourbon, Kansas City Whiskey. We bought some while we were out there. So tonight I am  drinking a Manhattan made from Rieger’s whiskey. 

Mrs. Jones 7:48  

Well, we went to a speakeasy. …and this was like a legit speakeasy. Like it kind of had a storefront. And I  thought, Oh, that’s where we’re going. And and our friend said, Oh, no. We have to like walk around the  back alley.  

Mr. Jones 8:01  

Yeah, you have to go in the back door. 

Mrs. Jones 8:02  

And there was like this industrial like it was literally the back of like a not a strip mall because it was in in  a town but it was like the back of a commercial building where the gray metal doors and you had to like  bang on the door and then you went in and and like you said the secret password and go down the  rickety stairs.

Mr. Jones 8:22  

And there was no electricity downstairs. It was all candlelight. 

Mrs. Jones 8:25  

It was lit… yeah, there were no lights. It was all candlelight. It was a super like mysterious… 

Mr. Jones 8:31  

Which made it extra easy to flirt. And with the with the couple that we were with because there were no  lights on. 

Mrs. Jones 8:41  

That’s true. And you and I had it easy because we’re not from Kansas City. So we knew we wouldn’t run  into anybody we knew. 

Mr. Jones 8:47  

Well… So you know, we we really feel honored that we were invited out there.  

Mrs. Jones 8:54  

Absolutely.  

Mr. Jones 8:54  

And so you know, invite us. We’re open to all kinds of invitations. We decided to go out there, and it was  a surprise that we were going to be out there for this. There was a lot of surprises… 

Mrs. Jones 9:05  

I had never met the birthday girl in person. You had. Because you come to Kansas City on business.  

Mr. Jones 9:10  

Right. 

Mrs. Jones 9:12  

…and gone out to dinner with these folks. I had never met the vast majority of them. So yeah, and we  went and it was hilarious. So like, she had no idea we were there. And we rolled into town on Friday  night and everybody except for the birthday couple got together on Friday night for dinner. I got to eat…  I had like real Kansas City barbecue… That brisket. You didn’t have to chew it. It just kind of melted in  your mouth. It was so good. So we had so much fun friday night, just kind of like hanging out with  everybody doing a great dinner. And then on Saturday morning, we were told – like you and I didn’t plan  anything. We were just told what to do when.  

Mrs. Jones 9:57  

It was awesome. So we were told to go to this hotel room number at this particular time and we were  going to take the birthday girl and her husband… 

Mr. Jones 10:05  

It was nice.  

Mr. Jones 10:06  

We were going to surprise her,

Mrs. Jones 10:07  

We were going to surprise her and take her out to brunch. So we knock on the door, and they’re like,  okay, like come on in and, and like I walked in first. And I’ve never met her in person before, so I didn’t  really – you know, I knew it would take like a split second for her to process. She had seen pictures of me  but but anyway, I walk in the room, and she just kind of like, cocked her head to the side. There was no  reaction. 

Mr. Jones 10:31  

No, she was – her chin was – her mouth was open. And she was just gazing around, like very confused  about what was going on.  

Mrs. Jones 10:38  

And like… her pretty little head was cocked to the side. And it was like process process. You could just  tell like she was trying to get her brain to work. And she saw you and of course, she’s hung out with you  before. So you know, she knew who we were, but it’s like her brain just would not catch up to reality. It  was hilarious. 

Mr. Jones 10:55  

Yeah. So there were probably about what eight or 10 couples that were there for party so we we went  out that afternoon, they had the wicked wine walk in downtown Kansas City. And we did that. And we  just went from bar to bar drinking wine. And we ended up at a karaoke bar. And I have… 

Mrs. Jones 11:15  

I knew this was gonna come up. [Laughing] 

Mr. Jones 11:16  

I have a love hate relationship with karaoke. And I despise it because people get up and they think they  can sing and I’m such an audiophile and such… 

Mrs. Jones 11:28  

A snob.  

Mr. Jones 11:31  

I am a snob. And when people get up, and I can’t help myself, I just start laughing. But anyway, we had  had enough to drink and they put I think what happened was we were… 

Mrs. Jones 11:44  

This was the end of the wine walk.  

Mr. Jones 11:45  

Yeah, we were in the big room and I think we were so bad that they escorted us into our own private  room 

Mrs. Jones 11:51  

That was a little weird. Like they they did have like a few private rooms in the back.  Mr. Jones 11:55 

That’s because we were bad.  

Mrs. Jones 11:57  

Oh my gosh.  

Mr. Jones 11:57  

That’s where they put the bad singers. 

Mrs. Jones 11:59  

Should we be embarrased? Or proud?  

Mr. Jones 12:00  

No, I didn’t care. It wasn’t my party. I was just following the crowd. 

Mrs. Jones 12:06  

But yeah, so our group got put in this private room. And I mean, it had a little karaoke machine in there.  And it had two different screens. So you could read the words and you get to choose your songs and  everything in there. And it had like, like a soundproof door that shut, and we had so much fun in there.  And there are way too many pictures. And maybe a video.  

Mr. Jones 12:28  

Yeah. So anyway, we went to – we stayed there for a while. We went to a house party, but it was a club  in Kansas City. What was the name of it, do you remember? 

Mrs. Jones 12:40  

The Kansas City Book Club. 

Mr. Jones 12:41  

Yeah, we went there Saturday night, and it was a pretty happening party – Halloween party. 

Mrs. Jones 12:46  

Actually. I was very impressed. I felt very comfortable. It was clean. I felt like it was just it was well run …  It just seemed like people were vetted.  

Mr. Jones 12:58  

It was very organized.  

Mrs. Jones 12:59  

People were behaving properly and the music was good. I thought it was great. 

Mr. Jones 13:04  

Yeah, nobody was shot. 

Mrs. Jones 13:06  

Oh, Mr. Jones, I swear. 

Mr. Jones 13:08  

Yeah. Well, that happened in Kansas City.

Mrs. Jones 13:10  

I know it did, at the other club. 

Mr. Jones 13:12  

So anyway, we we really want to say thank you to the people that organized this birthday party and  invited us out and we are so happy that we were able to come. You know, it was nice to be able to go to  an event that we were not hosting and in charge of. 

Mrs. Jones 13:26  

Well, and it was so nice to meet them in person, for me. Because you would, you would… Was there  anybody there that you hadn’t met?  

Mr. Jones 13:35  

Yeah.  

Mrs. Jones 13:36  

Yeah. Okay. So but I I didn’t know a lot of the people there and it was just so much fun to go and, and  just hang out and be part of the crowd. And just talk about some genuinely good people. 

Mr. Jones 13:50  

They are good people, and they’re sexy people too.  

Mrs. Jones 13:52  

And I’m pretty sure that every guy was a really good kisser. Cuz I’m pretty sure I I kissed every guy.  

Mr. Jones 13:57  

Oh, you’re such a slut.  

Mrs. Jones 13:59  

Maybe more than once. 

Mr. Jones 14:02  

We did have, we did have some fun.  

Mrs. Jones 14:04  

That’s a sexy crew. For sure.  

Mr. Jones 14:05  

Yeah. So when we come back, we’re going to talk about consent and the lifestyle and more than words,  and we’re going to explain what that means in just a second. 

Mrs. Jones 14:15  

Yep. Stay tuned. [Music] 

Mrs. Jones 14:27  

Welcome back to segment two on consent. More than words.

Mr. Jones 14:31  

More than words. And, you know, it’s hard to believe that we’ve done so many episodes without really  getting into this topic. 

Mrs. Jones 14:40  

I think we’ve talked about it a lot but not focused on it.  

Mr. Jones 14:45  

Right. Yeah. And there’s no question that consent is, is probably the most fundamentally important  principle of engaging with other people in the lifestyle. 

Mrs. Jones 14:55  

Right. And I think, I mean, there’s been tons of podcast episodes and blogs and such on consent. And,  you know, everybody’s been spot on, when they talk about consent, but I think one of the things that  you and I have been kind of batting around is that there’s really more to it than just asking for consent  up front.  

Mr. Jones 15:20  

And I think that’s what most people focus on is the verbal part of it. 

Mrs. Jones 15:23  

Yeah. May I do this? Or do I have permission to do that? And then, and then once they get that, yes,  they’re like, hallelujah, and they just like, go full steam ahead, and sometimes maybe don’t pick up on or  that maybe they don’t stay aware?  

Mr. Jones 15:40  

Well, that’s really not true, because a lot of people do talk about verbal consent, like every minute or  every five minutes. Oh, well, there is that too. So I just think what we’re saying is we’re going to go  broader than just verbal consent. 

Mrs. Jones 15:55  

Yeah. Yeah. So I think we’ve broken it down into like, four different ways to look at it. 

Mr. Jones 16:03  

Yeah. So obviously verbal consent with others. That’s, that’s kind of the easy one. And I don’t mean easy  as in doing it. I mean easy to say. 

Mrs. Jones 16:11  

No, right. Obvious.  

Mr. Jones 16:12  

Yes, it’s the most obvious. Yeah. Thank you. 

Mrs. Jones 16:15  

And then you have non-verbal consent. So, you know, I think that one is a little more subtle. But I also  think it’s more telling. And I’m sure we’re gonna talk about that. We’re gonna get into it. Yeah. 

Mr. Jones 16:30 

Yeah. And we’re also going to talk about a different kind of consent that maybe you haven’t thought of  before. And that is giving yourself consent to touch and to be touched by others. So in other words,  when somebody asks you, before you verbalize an answer, you have to make a decision in your own  mind. And give yourself consent. And we’ll talk – you’ll understand that hopefully a little bit better, you  know, when we get to that part, but before we start, there’s probably some background we need to set  up. First of all it, you know, it’s it’s impossible sometimes to understand the intent and motivation of  other people. 

Mrs. Jones 17:11  

Especially when you don’t know em. You know, if you’ve just met them, like you have no way of knowing  what’s going on in their head. 

Mr. Jones 17:18  

Exactly. So that’s a given. And that’s goes in daily life. A lot of this is, you know, appropriate and daily life  too. We’re also talking about consent that’s from the starting point that both parties intend no harm to  the other. 

Mrs. Jones 17:36  

That is true. That and I think that’s a really important thing to keep in mind. Nobody’s being forced to do  anything. You have to go into it with that mindset. You know, people are there because they at least  think they want to be there. 

Mr. Jones 17:53  

Yes. So the context of our conversation is from the starting point that both parties intend no harm.  Okay, because that’s a totally different conversation, if somebody intends… 

Mrs. Jones 18:05  

Oh, of course, yeah. 

Mr. Jones 18:08  

We’re also coming from this perspective that both parties are choosing to engage in the lifestyle. 

Mrs. Jones 18:13  

Right. This is not just cocktails. I mean, as far as where you’re getting to where it’s time to start asking  for consent. 

Mr. Jones 18:22  

Yes. So both parties, whether it’s two, four or five, however, many people have willingly come into this  lifestyle and are engaging with others with the distinct possibility of there being some sort of physical  interaction, 

Mrs. Jones 18:36  

Right. It doesn’t have to be full-on intercourse, I mean, just any kind of interaction that wouldn’t be  considered like the norm in mainstream society. 

Mr. Jones 18:45  

So we wanted to set that as a baseline. Also, participating in the lifestyle, at any level means you’re  subjecting yourself to the possibility of some sort of physical contact with others. So this should not 

come as a surprise to you that somebody is going to reach across and touch your arm or touch a elbow  or want to hug you. So, you know that – we’re choosing, you know, to do this, 

Mrs. Jones 19:10  

Right. And I think, you know, you have to accept responsibility for your decision to participate in the  lifestyle. And that means that if you’ve made that decision to do that, you’ve got to be prepared to  either ask for consent or to answer when somebody asks you for consent to do something. 

Mr. Jones 19:34  

Right. So as an active participant in the lifestyle, you should have already thought about how you’re  going to navigate the the idea of consent. 

Mrs. Jones 19:42  

And honestly, I remember that was really scary at first, just like that thought of that first time when I  kissed another man. 

Mr. Jones 19:50  

Well remember, we thought everybody was gonna want to attack us and have sex with us… 

Mrs. Jones 19:54  

We did think that. [Laughs]  

Mr. Jones 19:56  

And that was a mindset that that we were just naive as far as how… 

Mrs. Jones 20:00  

Right, we thought it was going to be a free-for-all. Yeah. And it’s not like that, at least not in the, you  know, arenas that we attempt to engage. 

Mr. Jones 20:08  

Right. You’re also – we have to understand that you’re responsible for understanding how sometimes  advances may impact you personally. And this, again is beyond this podcast because, 

Mrs. Jones 20:22  

Well, it is beyond the podcast, but but not really, because many of us and of course, I’m, I’m speaking on  behalf of the females out there, but it’s happened to men too. If you’ve been a victim of sexual trauma  of some sort at some point in your life, you’ve obviously had a lot of processing and dealing to overcome  that and and it’s amazing that you’ve come from someplace where you’ve had to endure trauma like  that, and you’ve gotten to the point where you think that you’re ready to engage in the lifestyle. But  you’re probably, you know, going into it with a little bit more trepidation than someone that has not  experienced that trauma. So you just have to be really aware of what kind of triggers could come up  during play very innocently that are going to put you on guard.  

Mr. Jones 21:22  

And what I’m saying is that, if that’s the case with you, which it is with many people, what we’re saying  tonight is not – it’s not medical advice, it’s not therapy. We’re not trying to provide that. 

Mrs. Jones 21:37 

No, we’re trying to provide perspective. 

Mr. Jones 21:39  

And like the whole mission of our podcast, we say, we’re doing this from the perspective of where we  are, and we can’t possibly… put ourselves in somebody else’s shoes who’s had that experience. So just  understand that. That’s where we’re coming from. You know, there’s different types of physical touch  

too. Before we start this, this, we’ve talked about flirting before and you know how we’ve talked about,  you know, somebody touching the small of your back or your elbow or your shoulder, your forearm… 

Mrs. Jones 22:11  

Not in a sexual way, just as a way to start making that physical connection. You know, where it it really  wouldn’t be inappropriate in a normal public setting. 

Mr. Jones 22:21  

Right. So when we talk about physical touch for consent, we’re not talking about me touching your  elbow or reaching across and putting my hand on your shoulder.  

Mrs. Jones 22:29  

Oh, my gosh, I’m a hugger.  

Mr. Jones 22:31  

I know. So there’s… 

Mrs. Jones 22:32  

…and some people don’t like that.  

Mr. Jones 22:33  

So there’s different cultures. You know, there’s different backgrounds and where the part of the world  we live in and the family we grew up in, shaking somebody’s hand is a polite thing to do. And that’s a  physical contact. And, you know, when when somebody reaches their hand out, you you typically take it  and you don’t take it like somebody’s being aggressive with you. Or if somebody comes to hug you, it’s  because they’re greeting you warmly and, you know, so there’s a big difference in our minds for some  sort of a greeting or salutation or physical touch with flirting than there is during playtime when you’re  in the bedroom. 

Mrs. Jones 23:13  

Right. And, you know, I think, I think humans are wired to desire physical touch. And again, I’m not even  really talking about sex yet. I’m just talking about that’s the way we connect with people. That’s part  that’s one of our senses. So I think that that physical touch is important. But you know, this is where the  whole more than words comes into play. You know, if I’m standing there talking with somebody and you  know, I’m starting to kind of like get a little goofy and I’m laughing and I keep like touching their – you  know, arm or their shoulder as I’m telling a story. And and I’m not picking up on the fact that they’re  kind of withdrawing from me because I’m like, they don’t like that, then that’s bad on me – like I need to  be aware of how somebody is reacting to my to my physical touch. 

Mr. Jones 24:05  

Yeah, and we’re going to talk about that when we talk about body language, that exact thing. You’re  right, though. The other thing is that you may disagree with our, our approach tonight when we’re 

talking about this, and that’s perfectly fine. I think people just need to understand that they’re coming  into an environment where some of us may see this as more than a black and white, verbal nonverbal  thing. And be prepared to be vigilant. If you’re the type of person that needs that type of consent, that  

verbal consent for a handshake, or a hug, you know, you’re going to have to just prepare yourself for  that. 

Mrs. Jones 24:44  

Well, I think that’s what I was talking about earlier. If If you know that culturally, you’re in the minority  because let’s say you did not grow up in the United States and you come here and you grew up in a in a  culture that has much more formal in their greetings. You just need to have that awareness. Now you’re  in another culture, just like if we travel overseas, we have to be aware to be very respectful of those  social norms. So, you know, while while you may disagree, it’s probably more of a cultural thing. Or, or  something from your past, that is making you react differently than you know, what, how we’re  reacting. 

Mr. Jones 25:26  

Yeah. And speaking for you and I, and in this in touch of the hand, doesn’t not does not offend us or  emotionally harm us if we’re not interested. You know, we don’t we don’t take it that way. It’s, yes, it’s  physical touch. And maybe it’s even necessary to know if there is some sort of a spark or chemistry but it  doesn’t. If it if it’s, you know, it’s not an unwanted it’s just something that we’re not going to have a  negative response to. 

Mrs. Jones 25:54  

Right. Now, will it make my spidey sense go up sometimes? Yeah, it does. But I think that’s kind of what  you’re getting at.  

Mr. Jones 26:03  

Yeah, that’s an input signal. Yeah. But I mean, that’s something to learn. Because if somebody touches  you and you get a feeling that’s not positive, then we don’t get angry or defensive, is what we’re saying.  We learn from that and say, You know what, 

Mrs. Jones 26:18  

That’s my body’s way of saying, let’s not give consent here.  

Mr. Jones 26:22  

Exactly. Right. So we’re going to define consent, permission, ask to touch somebody else, and then that  permission is got to be granted or acknowledged, acknowledged and granted by the other person. So for  our purposes for this conversation, that’s how we’re defining consent.  

Mrs. Jones 26:40  

Okay, I think that works.  

Mr. Jones 26:42  

Are we ready to go? 

Mrs. Jones 26:43 

Sure. Let’s start with verbal. Use your use your words, use your voice. You know, sometimes, well, I  struggle with using my words, but I do know to ask for consent. That – you know, I’m pretty good at  saying May I kiss you? 

Mr. Jones 27:02  

Yes. Yes, it’s it’s required. Verbal consent is not optional. There are things that lead up to that and thing  that would things that follow that. But there has to be some sort of verbal question – doesn’t even have  to be in the form of a question. But you have to ask, and somebody has to acknowledge that. That’s  pretty much the prerequisite. Another thing about verbal consent is, it can be awkward, because, look,  we’ve been married for 35 years now. And we don’t, we haven’t had to worry about consent, verbal  consent between the two of us for a long time, or it’s more of a conversation that it is, hey, it’s Saturday  night. What are we going to do tonight? 

Mrs. Jones 27:48  

Well, like if we’re going to try something new. We talked about it ahead of time.  

Mr. Jones 27:50  

Yeah, that’s true.  

Mrs. Jones 27:51  

You know, or we’ll stop in the middle of play and and talk about it, but you know that I’m not afraid to  ask you something. You know, I know sometimes, you know, like, I wouldn’t want to do something crazy  without asking you first and catch you off guard. And you’re the same way with me. But yeah, I’m not  I’m not afraid of being rejected by you, you might not want to do something. But that wouldn’t be  anything against me would just be against that particular act I’m trying to… 

Mr. Jones 28:22  

Well, you know what – I have to, I have to give you credit because as much as I give you a hard time  about not fantasizing, you came up with an idea. We’re gonna see two of our best lifestyle friends here  coming up shortly and, and the other day you said, You know what, when we see them, I wonder if they  would really like to do this and I about fell out.  

Mrs. Jones 28:25  

You did. You really fell off the chair.  

Mr. Jones 28:49  

I said, are you fantasizing? And you said, maybe and I said, Well, then when we Skype with them, I want  you to ask that question. 

Mrs. Jones 28:57  

You put me on the spot. Well, made me like describe my fantasy in front of them.  

Mr. Jones 29:02  

You’re getting you’re getting to the point, just what I’m trying to make here. This is – it can be awkward.  

Mrs. Jones 29:07  

Yes, it was.

Mr. Jones 29:08  

…because… 

Mrs. Jones 29:08  

It was really hot because they they, they thought it was a good idea. So then I was like shoo, glad I  brought it up. 

Mr. Jones 29:13  

Yeah, no, it turned into something that you know was which is what’s the next thing can be very sexy.  So, you know, it went from awkward to being sexy, but I have to give you credit because you had the  courage to just throw it out there. 

Mrs. Jones 29:27  

I know. And we’ve known them for a long time. And and I was still nervous about that. So yeah, so  asking for consent or saying what you want and asking if that would be okay can be, you know, a little  awkward and scary and it doesn’t feel natural. I guess is the thing. 

Mr. Jones 29:45  

Right. But then when we had the conversation and they they said that sounded like a lot of fun. Now the  wheels are turning. Now we’re looking forward to that while we have that in the back of our minds. And  like I was saying it can be sexy too. I like – It doesn’t even have to be a question. Like sometimes when  I’m when I’m with another woman, I’ll say, you know, I’ve really wanted to kiss you all day, or I really  want to taste you. You know. So I don’t sometimes I don’t ask a question. I’ll just make a statement like  that.  

Mrs. Jones 30:15  

And see how she responds.  

Mr. Jones 30:17  

I wait for an acknowledgement, or a response to that and then go from there. Because I’m not. I’m not  one of these people that says, may I do this? May I do that? May I do this? Now, at first, I tend to do that  more, like, May I kiss you? Is it okay, if I kiss you? You know, but, you know, beyond that, once you start  engaging, it can be really sexy the way that you ask and the way that you prompt, and encourage  conversation during sex. But you know what? It can be annoying too. 

Mrs. Jones 30:51  

Well, I guess the thing about asking for consent is if you don’t know the person very well, and maybe  everybody’s a little bit nervous and you can feel that nervous energy in the room. You might tend to  overcompensate by asking too much too often. And and if you don’t know the couple very well, you  

don’t really know what the right balance is, or the right level of asking. You know, so, you know, if you  have to ask every 30 seconds, it does kind of start taking the little sexy out of the equation, I guess. But,  you know, so you, you want to be polite and you want to make sure everything’s okay. But are you – are  you ruining the momentum by over asking?  

Mr. Jones 31:40  

Well – And this is a good… 

Mrs. Jones 31:41 

And that’s a hard question to answer.  

Mr. Jones 31:43  

This is a good point, that you could decide that you’re not compatible with somebody. Because if  somebody really needs to ask every couple of minutes if this is okay, then obviously that’s what they  need that in order for them to have a good time. I’m not somebody who needs that. And nor do I want it  because after a while, it starts to be a distraction. And I can’t perform or I can’t get into it. So at that  point in time, instead of getting angry at each other about having different ways to communicate, we  should just say, you know what, this is probably – and, you know, maybe maybe we shouldn’t do this,  maybe, maybe we’re not comfortable with each other. And so rather than rather than argue about, you  know, consent, you know, you’re two different people. And remember, in this lifestyle, we’re looking for  connections, and we’re looking for people who are, you know, fit or complement who we are. 

Mrs. Jones 32:35  

Right. Well, see, I’ve been wanting to talk about this next one, because to me everything you were just  saying, I’m thinking, you know, if you could just read somebody’s body language, then you wouldn’t  have to ask. 

Mr. Jones 32:48  

Okay, so let’s talk about number two, which is nonverbal consent.  

Mrs. Jones 32:52  

Yes. To me, this one is really important. It’s it’s more challenging to pick up on and to, I guess, be  confident about. But I think reading somebody’s body language is more telling than their words.  

Mr. Jones 33:11  

You know what this…  

Mrs. Jones 33:12  

If I ask somebody if I can do something and they say yes, but then I start playing with them and their  body’s not responding right, that yes wasn’t really very helpful. 

Mr. Jones 33:24  

I know. That’s what we’re going to talk about down here. What I wanted to say…  

Mrs. Jones 33:28  

Clearly I am not following Mr. Jones’s outline. [Laughs] 

Mr. Jones 33:33  

Body language, let’s just start with body language because it’s got the word language in it. It’s almost  like talking with somebody from a different country that speaks a different language. And you and you  want to communicate. Communication is what we’re after here, right? Body language is like a foreign  language to some people. So it would be like trying to communicate and play with somebody who  doesn’t speak your language. You have to pay attention and listen and observe. And so if it wasn’t just as  important as verbal, I don’t think we would call it a language because it is a language. 

Mrs. Jones 34:13  

Oh, that’s a really good point. Yeah.

Mr. Jones 34:15  

So what’s the parts of your body that, you know that you use? I mean, you gave an example like, how do  you? How do you show somebody that you’re interested in them through your body language? 

Mrs. Jones 34:30  

Well, I think a lot of it has to do with like, just proximity. You know, as the evening goes on, there’s a less  personal space around me.  

Mr. Jones 34:38  

Okay, so you’re getting closer. 

Mrs. Jones 34:39  

I do like to have a bit of a bubble around me. But you know, when I start relaxing and feeling  comfortable with the people around that, that bubble shrinks. 

Mr. Jones 34:48  

Okay. So you’re so you’re letting people closer to you.  

Mrs. Jones 34:50  

Yeah.  

Mr. Jones 34:51  

And keep in mind that you didn’t ask for consent there.  

Mrs. Jones 34:54  

No, you’re right.  

Mr. Jones 34:55  

I mean, you’re not going to say may I stand closer to you. Right. So these things start to happen… 

Mrs. Jones 34:56  

I’m testing the waters.  

Mr. Jones 35:00  

That’s exactly right. 

Mrs. Jones 35:02  

And I think that, that when I get close to somebody and I’m and I’m watching them respond, to me that  that’s what I’m accomplishing, you know, if I’m getting closer to somebody and they’re like taking baby  steps backwards, then then obviously we’re not comfortable. There’s not there’s not consent yet.  Maybe there’s maybe they want to have – to offer consent, but they’re not ready. 

Mr. Jones 35:32  

So if you stop and and think about that for a minute, if, if we don’t close that gap, if I’m spitting, if I’m  standing two feet away from you, and I just out of the blue blurt out, may I kiss you? That’s probably a  little awkward and at the wrong time. Because you haven’t gotten physically close enough to pick up on  their body language. And to pick up on that chemistry, and to pick up on those nonverbal clues clues. So 

when you get closer to somebody, and people start talking with their hands and it’s very easy to just  reach right out in front of you and and put my, the tips of my fingers on your forearm when we’re  standing face to face.  

Mrs. Jones 36:10  

So you’re not talking about grabbing my boob?  

Mr. Jones 36:12  

No. Of course not. 

Mrs. Jones 36:16  

No, I mean I I’m making a joke out of it… 

Mr. Jones 36:20  

But the fact that you allowed me to get closer to you is some sort of a body language consent that you  that I want you to move closer to me or it’s okay if you move closer to me. And we didn’t say anything.  Right? So then when we do get closer, I mean, the thing that, that I always notice is somebody’s eyes,  

you know, just their eye contact. And are they checking their phone or are they looking around the  room? Are they interested in me? You know, that’s – so when you get that close with somebody and  they start averting their eyes, then that’s the signal that, you know, maybe I should back away here, this  person’s not as interested in them as me as I am in them. 

Mrs. Jones 37:03  

Exactly. 

Mr. Jones 37:04  

And on the other hand, when, like recently, we had a great experience with a couple and I had a, I had a  very strong connection with her and it was all in the eyes. And she and I did a lot of eye contact, very  close up eye contact and, and it was – somebody is allowing me permission to get that close and to look  into her. You know, that’s very vulnerable when you open yourself up like that because it can be very  emotional to allow yourself to make that kind of connection and… so for me it’s a lot of it is eye contact. 

Mrs. Jones 37:44  

Yeah, that’s true. I mean, to me – you’re right, eye contact’s important. I, I just think the overall body  language of something like their posture like how are their shoulders, are their shoulders drawn up or,  you know, are there – you know, are they are they relaxed in their stature? You know, you can just really  read a lot from just the way somebody is holding themselves. What are they doing with their hands?  You know, are they kind of wringing their hands? You know, there’s just a lot to be learned about  somebody just observing how they’re standing or sitting or you know, whatever position they’re in. As  far as you know, what, what’s really going on in their heads, and sometimes it has nothing to do with a  yes or the no that comes out of their mouth. You know what I’m thinking about? Like, I guess this was all  nonverbal consent. I’m sorry. I’m going back to Nashville in that elevator. Like, that was just, that was  crazy. I’m pretty sure there were zero words. 

Mr. Jones 38:46  

No. 

Mrs. Jones 38:46 

There was no consent asked for or given. 

Mr. Jones 38:50  

Well, well, let’s clarify. So when we were dancing, we did kiss on the dance floor. So we had – we did  some consent there. And we we talked about may we kiss you on the dance floor. So so we had already  kissed them on the dance floor. So it’s not like we got into the elevator and they were complete  strangers. And we just grabbed them.  

Mrs. Jones 39:07  

Yeah, we had met them. Actually, just that day that we had met them. 

Mr. Jones 39:12  

And we found ourselves on the elevator and we turned and then there was just that chemistry and the  body… the bodies moved together …you know, into that personal space, and we just kind of… 

Mrs. Jones 39:21  

It was just it was all nonverbal consent.  

Mr. Jones 39:24  

Yes. But we didn’t play with them that night. We did stop.  

Mrs. Jones 39:28  

Yeah, unfortunately.  

Mr. Jones 39:29  

Yeah. So so it didn’t, you know, we did get to a point where we said phew, wow, that was something.  We can’t wait to see you again, you know, and we can, you know, maybe do something else next time.  So, 

Mrs. Jones 39:41  

and we would have had to have had a talk at some point because we didn’t know their playstyle, we  didn’t know anything, you know, about you know, their background or their experience or whatever. So,  yeah, there would have been a point in time but, but it was their body language that just made that so  obvious and easy.  

Mr. Jones 40:01  

But what you were just mentioning is getting to the next point about, you know, the non-verbal consent  moves you towards an opportunity to do some verbal affirmation, like, yeah, we kissed em in the  elevator. But if we would have gone any further, we would have had to have said, Hey, before we go any  further, you know, what is your – are you guys interested in playing? What’s your play style? You know,  what’s your sexuality? What’s your sexual preference? You know, …so the nonverbal, body language  stuff that got us all hot and bothered led us to a point where we had to use our words. 

Mrs. Jones 40:39  

Right. And I think if you’re reading somebody’s body language, and you’re kind of picking up on what  level of consent there is there, then I think that makes the verbal consent less awkward. Because you  know they’re interested. You just need to like now let’s verify it with some words. Before we end up  doing something, you know, a little more serious. 

Mr. Jones 41:03  

That’s right. And you know what, a lot of people find that non verbal consent or body language is very  difficult. Some people have a hard time picking up on that. Yeah. Because they’re, that’s not words, you  have to intuit. I mean, you have to observe and you have to have some feeling about what’s happening.  And a lot of – some people struggle with that. 

Mrs. Jones 41:25  

Well, a lot of people like things to be black and white. And that’s what verbal consent does. Yes or no.  You know, and that nonverbal that it’s a little bit more of a sliding scale. It’s like yeah, I think I want to  but I might not be brave enough. You know, that’s what the body language can be telling you. And then  you know, that, you know, maybe if you just kind of slow things down a little bit and get to know them a  little bit more that I’m not sure, it could turn into a yes. 

Mr. Jones 41:49  

Now for me this this last one for non-verbal consent is the most important, and that is it is continuous  monitoring. To use of business term. I am always in tune with the person that I’m with, or that’s what  I’m trying to do. Where if I ask you if I can kiss you, and then at some point in the future, I ask if I can  remove an article of clothing, there may be a period of time between those two asks. Right? …Body  language and nonverbal communication is, is constant. It’s never disrupted. You know, I’m always I’m  watching, I’m listening. I’m engaging. I’m, you know, I’m probing, then I will ask a question, or I’ll move  my hand to a certain place and I’ll observe for feedback, you know, like, is she getting uncomfortable?  Do I need to stop and ask, you know, is she okay? So if, you know, in my opinion, the way that I  approach it with that is that I’m super super focused on consent, but a lot of it is through body language. 

Mrs. Jones 42:59  

Right. And you know, some people might be listening to this and saying, This is such a no brainer,  because maybe that’s the way you’re wired. You’re, you’re a pretty intuitive person and you’re good at  reading people. Some people are like, Oh, wow, I you know, I need I need to keep checking in? You  know, I thought if I got the go-ahead, then I’m good to go. And that doesn’t make one person smarter or  better than the other. It’s just that’s the way your brain processes things. 

Mr. Jones 43:28  

That makes us incompatible to play.  

Mrs. Jones 43:30  

Well, possibly yes.  

Mr. Jones 43:31  

Because that, no, I’m serious because that person would be uncomfortable with me. Not talking a lot, if  that’s what they need. And I would be thinking it was awkward being asked a question every 30 seconds.  So yeah, neither way – both ways are effective. But we believe a combination of the two is the most  powerful way to ask for and grant and, and get consent. 

Mrs. Jones 43:57  

Well, when you combine both ways you’re meeting the needs of all types of people. You know, so I think  that does bring everybody to some middle ground where people are going to feel comfortable.

Mr. Jones 44:07  

Yes. And I was with – we were with a couple not too long ago. As a matter of fact, she’s going to be in my  snapshot tonight. She does a lot of talking. And she asks a lot of questions, but it’s very …it’s very  curious and it’s very playful. And you know, and it’s not, is it okay if we do this? Is it ok if we do that? It’s  like, Hey, I have an idea. What do you think about this? Or would it be okay? Are you sure this is okay if I  do this? It’s very engaging and playful. And, you know, fun. And so she – and I like that because it’s really  turning her on. So if I’m going to be engaged that way in verbal communication that that works fine. I  just, it doesn’t need to be like a job interview for me. 

Mrs. Jones 44:51  

That’s sexy Mr. Jones.  

Mr. Jones 44:52  

Well, I’m just telling it like it is. Okay. So that one is a little bit more difficult, I think we agree, than  verbal. 

Mrs. Jones 45:02  

Yeah. Well, I don’t think it – I don’t think it’s difficult. I think it just leaves more – it’s more open to  interpretation. So you have to be paying attention. 

Mr. Jones 45:18  

Right. You have to check in to make sure… 

Mrs. Jones 45:19  

Yes means yes and no means no, that’s obvious.  

Mr. Jones 45:22  

I like the word interpret. That’s a good word. So if I’m picking up on body language, and I act upon it,  then it’s my responsibility to check with you to make sure that I interpreted that properly. 

Mrs. Jones 45:33  

Oh, that’s good. Yeah. 

Mr. Jones 45:35  

Because if you if you all of a sudden recoil, or if you back away, my interpretation is, okay, I didn’t  understand. I must not have understood you. And then there’ll be some sort of a conversation… 

Mrs. Jones 45:45  

Right. Is this okay? 

Mr. Jones 45:46  

Yeah. If you need to interpret that then you need to ask, you know, for that kind of interpretation. It’s a  good point. Okay, so now we’re going to talk about giving yourself consent. 

Mrs. Jones 45:58  

Okay. What in the world do you mean by that? 

Mr. Jones 46:00 

You already spilled the beans on this. So we’ll go back to the the – you said earlier that you may tell  somebody Yes, but maybe you didn’t -or you didn’t really want to. 

Mrs. Jones 46:16  

Well, I think you sometimes try to talk yourself into something, you know, it’ll, it’ll be okay. It isn’t that  you don’t want to do it. It’s just you’re not sure how you’re going to respond to it. So, you know, I think  you you have to make a decision as an individual. Am I going to go ahead and, and just try this and see  how it goes? Or should I just, you know, cut the cord now. 

Mr. Jones 46:41  

Yeah. So let me give you an example. Let’s say that there’s four of us playing, and I’m on my side of the  bed, just having a good old time because that’s typically what happens. And you are in a situation where  somebody asks you to do something, and your first thought is, that’s not something that I really want to  do. Or I don’t really feel like doing that at this moment because I’m not comfortable. But you look over  on the other side of the bed. And you see, I’m having a good time, the other woman’s having a good  time. The gentleman that just asked you a question so far. And so you start to compromise with  yourself. So you, you’re really going against your own consent, because you don’t really want to do it,  but verbally you say, okay, and but maybe you’re – it’s not enthusiastic, you know, maybe your heart is  really not in it. So when we say give yourself consent, you’re the first line of defense in your own head, if  there’s something that somebody asks you, and it even is worse if the person that’s asking you is a more  of a verbal person, because they’re not going to pick up on the body language that all of a sudden you  said, it’s okay if we do this, even though you don’t want to do it. I would pick up maybe on your body  language not being enthusiastic. But other people [think] oh, I got a green light. She said yes. So I’m just  gonna plow forward. 

Mrs. Jones 48:09  

Right. And I think the reason people struggle with this is because, and I’ve had this happen before where  I haven’t really wanted to do something, but I’ve agreed to do it. And then it’s been awesome. 

Mr. Jones 48:22  

Yeah, right. Right. 

Mrs. Jones 48:24  

So you’re going through this little like mind struggle with yourself and like, instantaneously, because  somebody asks you a question and you’re expected to respond, and in your head, you’re thinking, Okay,  why do I not want to do this? You know, I’m, I’m a little afraid. And is it just because I haven’t done it  before? Is it because I didn’t have time to talk to my partner ahead of time? Is my partner is going to be  okay with that. And, and it’s just like, you know, all of this stuff is spinning all at the same time. So, yeah,  how do you how do you make a good decision and give yourself consent to try something new.  

Mr. Jones 48:59  

Exactly.  

Mrs. Jones 49:01  

In the heat of the moment. 

Mr. Jones 49:02 

Yeah. Because I like, you know, like the idea of pulling hair. Okay. I had two sisters, so I pulled their hair  a lot. So maybe I scarred them. I don’t know. But a guy may say – maybe he’s doggy style and maybe he  goes in, grabs a handful of your hair. And he says, Is it okay, if I pull your hair? Well,  

Mrs. Jones 49:24  

Uh, Yes, it is.  

Mr. Jones 49:25  

Yeah,  

Mrs. Jones 49:25  

I like that.  

Mr. Jones 49:26  

Well, for you, yes. But if you’re somebody that thinks of a woman being dragged by a caveman, when  you think of hair pulling and you think it’s subservient and you think somebody’s dominating you, and  that’s what you want, then you’re going to have a completely different reaction. So you have to decide,  is that hair pulling something that is going to bother me or is it just something that meh, if he wants to  do it, that’s fine. We’ll give it a try. But it’s up to you – you have – you’re the only one that knows what’s  going on inside of your head, you’re the only one that knows what experiences you’ve had in the past  and what and what your feelings are about that. And then to your point, you have to decide, hey, you  know what, I gotta get over this. Hey, go ahead. Give it a yank. But it’s really up to you. 

Mrs. Jones 50:15  

It is up to each individual. And and again, the problem with this whole consent thing is that the play  partner doesn’t know your pas. You know, your your partner does – your life partner does. But your play  partner does not know your past, does not know if there’s something that’s happened to you in the past  that is, you know, going to affect the way you respond to certain things in the heat of the moment. 

Mr. Jones 50:44  

Right. And another thing is that if somebody asks you something, and you’ve already had your talk about  the boundaries, and they ask you to go beyond the boundaries, then it’s more than just hair pulling,  because we didn’t talk about that. It’s – We talked about soft swap. And that’s what we agreed to. And  now you’re asking me to full swap. So that is more of a trust issue and a bigger issue, you’re not going to  want to give somebody consent if you’ve already addressed this. Right?  

Mrs. Jones 51:17  

Right. I don’t think it’s fair to ask for consent to push that kind of a boundary in the middle of play. 

Mr. Jones 51:27  

Right. 

Mrs. Jones 51:28  

I it’s kind of it’s, it’s kind of dirty pool. Because you’re putting somebody on the spot. And that person  isn’t going to make their best decisions with all those hormones raging. At that point in time, because  I’m assuming you’ve had fun up to this point. And now all of a sudden, you know, you want to try  something. You know, if you do want to push a boundary like that, you know, think about de-escalating  the play and letting the blood come back into the brains of everybody engaged in the play session so 

that an informed decision can be made. You know, not in the heat of the moment., it’ll be okay kind of  decision, because that’s really not fair. That that’s just playing dirty pool. And, and those are the types of  situations where the next morning you just kind of regret it.  

Mr. Jones 52:22  

Yeah. And you know, listen to, you know, have there been any other red flags during that play  experience? You know, have you talked about your boundaries? You know, is your body responding  positively to this person? You know, all of this is going on at one time. And somebody may, even though  you’ve talked about boundaries, and you talked about soft swap, if somebody says, can we full swap?  That person may think, even though they’re wrong, that Oh, I’m going to ask consent. This is what you’re  supposed to do. But no, we already had that conversation. So this is not about consent. You’re you’re  you’re pressuring me. 

Mrs. Jones 53:03  

Right. I mean, that happened to us at that at a house party years ago. And I, it, I didn’t, for whatever  reason, it made me mad. And that… yeah, that was like game over. 

Mr. Jones 53:20  

Well, it made you mad because when – well, first of all, there’s a couple of different scenarios here, the  one you’re talking about. We had agreed to soft swap, but I don’t think I was – I was in the restroom  when that conversation occurred.  

Mrs. Jones 53:34  

You were. 

Mr. Jones 53:34  

And when and when we started playing, the other gentleman is the one who popped up and said, Hey,  do you guys want a full swap? And I popped up and looked at you and said, What do you think? Well,  that was putting you on the spot. Because you had already said soft swap. So that was, you know, I  didn’t bring it up. But it was bad on me because I gave the wrong answer. 

Mrs. Jones 53:55  

Right. And you didn’t say hey, that’s a great idea. You did defer to me. But yeah. 

Mr. Jones 54:02  

And you said no.  

Mrs. Jones 54:03  

Yeah, I did. I said, Honey, we agreed to be a soft swap couple tonight. I think I was gnashing my teeth  when I said it. [Laughs] 

Mr. Jones 54:10  

Okay. 

Mrs. Jones 54:12  

Yeah. But you know, that guy. He, yeah, that wasn’t right, to do that. 

Mr. Jones 54:20 

Yeah. And lastly, are you feeling pressured into saying yes, like, and that pressure could be over, it could  be intentional, or it could be just pressure that you’re putting on yourself. So, if you’re giving a yes. And  it has something to do with you feeling pressure to do so, then that’s maybe not what you should say or  that you really want to say. 

Mrs. Jones 54:44  

Yeah, so you’re using the word, but you’re not following through.  

Mr. Jones 54:47  

So the point here is that a lot of people who are verbal, they hear a yes. But really, you didn’t want to  say yes, but because you did say yes, I’m I’m going forward, and I’m not paying much attention to your  body language because I just got a yes. So, that’s… 

Mrs. Jones 55:05  

Yeah. And that can end up in a pretty bad ending, you know. People get hurt that way. And then they  end up not wanting to try again, because they think every experience is going to be like that – they’re  going to constantly get pushed out of their comfort zones. 

Mr. Jones 55:21  

Yeah. And the other thing about it is hearing a yes, but sensing a no, and I think we talked about this a  little bit earlier when we were talking about body language too. Like when somebody says, Yes, you may  do that. And then I start doing that and their body language changes. Then, you know, if you’re the type,  if you’re with the, if you’re with a person that picks up on body language, that’s good, because like me,  I’m going to say, wait a minute, something’s not right here. Is there a misunderstanding? Am I doing this  wrong? You know, and then, so typically, I’ll say, Does this feel okay? Or, why don’t you tell me exactly  what you know you want me to do?  

Mrs. Jones 56:05  

Yeah. Or, do you want to try something else?  

Mr. Jones 56:07  

Right. 

Mrs. Jones 56:07  

Yeah. 

Mr. Jones 56:07  

Yeah. So this… hearing somebody say yes. And then, but you sense that they really -maybe it’s a no. 

Mrs. Jones 56:16  

Right. I mean, it goes back to just – just look at their body, look at their posture. You know, if they’re not  relaxed and you know, responding to whatever physical activity you’re engaging in at that point in time,  you know, then that’s not a yes. 

Mr. Jones 56:33  

Right. And another thing you can do is just slow things down. Because when you’re new to this, man,  this stuff it, it happens fast, and it’s overwhelming. And it’s like, everything is moving really quickly if  you’re new to this and you’ve never done this before. So slowing down is actually a good thing. Because 

you can – your breathing can slow down, you can gather your senses about yourself and then you can  start exploring a little bit slowly. You know, to make sure you didn’t misunderstand something, 

Mrs. Jones 57:02  

Right. Or just actually have a conversation. And, you know, I don’t want to give the impression that, you  know, you can’t change, you know, change your mind with on things midstream.  

Mr. Jones 57:18  

Absolutely.  

Mrs. Jones 57:19  

Cuz we’ve done that before and it’s really worked out well. You know, and and i think i but i just think  there needs to be some sort of regrouping, just to make sure that everybody is like, truly on board. You  know, everybody has their faculties, you know, you don’t have to like, stop and put your clothes back  on. But you need to let everybody kind of get a chance to catch their breath. And then just make sure  like, look somebody in the eye and say, would you be okay, if we tried this? You know, so that, but  again, that’s that’s asking for consent midstream.  

Mr. Jones 57:54  

Yeah. Or you gotta say, hey, I need some feedback here, because if I go down on a woman and, you  know, some women, within a couple of minutes, they’re having an orgasm and then others, maybe  there’s not going to be one. And at some point in time, I need somebody to knock on the top of my  head. Because I’m, I’m not goal oriented, but I’m a people pleaser. And I want to, if something’s not  happening, I’m thinking, What am I doing wrong? You know, and that would be a good time to, like,  

knock on the top of my head and say, it’s okay. I don’t usually orgasm through oral sex, you know, so  that, you know that yes, you can go down on me, but then there needs to be some feedback and  conversation along with that. And, you know, another another clue is that, did the yes come from the  other partner? Like when, like when you asked to do something, and the husband says, Oh, yeah, she  really likes that. Like, well, we really need to hear it from her. 

Mrs. Jones 58:55  

You know, we haven’t had that happen to us in a while, but it seemed like we went through – it was kind  of at the beginning, we ran into a couple couples relatively close to each other where he would like, try  to completely speak for her every time like she didn’t have a voice or a mind, you know, she didn’t have  like a say in what was going to be done, like she was just a puppet or something, and I didn’t like that. 

Mr. Jones 59:19  

Right. And you know, where, you know, I just thought of something that maybe I’m guilty of doing this  myself. It’s when you you, when you get your strap on out or or you say something to the other woman  about, hey, have you ever used a double dildo? And what typically happens is me and the other guy, we  start jumping up and down. We’re like, Oh, yeah, yeah, we want to see this. We want to see this. And  then I’m thinking the poor woman is now… 

Mrs. Jones 59:49  

She’s on the spot.  

Mr. Jones 59:50 

She’s on the spot because we’re jumping up and down acting like teenagers. And you’ve, you know, put  an invitation out there so I’m – as much as I try not to get overly excited… 

Mrs. Jones 1:00:00  

And I try not to put the woman on – I try to kind of get a sense for whether she’s going to be open to  that before I ask. Because I know that she’s going to be put on the spot for sure. Do I always get it right?  I don’t know. You know, I’ve never gotten any feedback. Like, you know, like, maybe, you know, I wasn’t  really ready for that or whatever. So I, you know, I guess I try my best. 

Mr. Jones 1:00:26  

Well, you know what it is with you, honey, you’re, you’re very good at making other people feel  comfortable. Like when you get your toy bag out, and you say, you know what I’ve got in here, have you  ever used one of these before? And then if they say no, you’d say, Well, do you want to try it? And this is  what it’s like, and and, you know, I’d be happy to, you know, to show you and the guys can, you know,  help us by doing this and you kind of make it an easy yes. For somebody who maybe hasn’t done that  before. 

Mrs. Jones 1:01:00  

Either that I’m just really good at talking people into things. I don’t know, but but you know, honestly, at  the end of the day, it becomes up to that woman to give herself consent. You know, like, she has to use  her words at some point and say, you know, I’m not really interested in trying that or I’m not ready for  that. So, you know, at that point in time the ball is in her court, but she – and she’s gonna have to  respond. And if she feels put on the spot, I’m sorry. 

Mr. Jones 1:01:32  

Yeah, yeah. So that’s the third type of consent that we want that we wanted to talk about. The first was  verbal, the second was nonverbal and body language and the third was giving yourself – are you being  honest with yourself? And are you putting yourself in a position where you’re going to possibly be  uncomfortable with the lifestyle, like a content issue, and I mean, well, like we’re going to Desire next  week, right? I mean, you’re going to a resort, you’re paying a lot of money. It’s clothing optional, you’re  going to be in a pool or a hot tub with a lot of naked people. There are people there who are going to be  in the lifestyle and some who are not. If you’re choosing to go there, you’re putting, you’re going to be  putting yourself in an environment where there’s an opportunity for a content issue to arise. And I think  it’s a big mistake for us to think that everyone out there is going to be a gentleman. They’re going to be  a lady. They understand consent, they’re going to read my body language, they’re going to ask first,  because you’re going to be disappointed. 

Mrs. Jones 1:02:43  

Well, the vast majority of the people are going to be polite and ask for consent. There’s always there’s  always one. I mean, we joke about it, and it pretty much happens every time, however, you, like, I think  the point you’re trying to make is if you’re putting yourself in that environment by choosing to go to a  club or a sexy resort or whatever, you have to be prepared to stand up for yourself and you have to be  prepared to explain yourself. You know, in my culture, you know, we we don’t kiss, you know, or we  don’t hug when we first meet somebody. And you just have to explain that, I’d be like, Oh my gosh,  okay, I’m so sorry. You know, cuz I’m a hugger. …and I, and I don’t mean, we’ve been to Desire so many  times. I hug people naked all the time. And I don’t even think about it. It’s not sexual for me. It’s just  affection. 

Mr. Jones 1:03:36  

I know. But here’s the here’s the thing that bothers me. And this is how I handle it – like the whole ping  pong ball game. When when you’re in the hot tub, and people start throwing the ping pong balls that  says, you know, go kiss this person or do this, that’s a huge consent issue for me. So I don’t even I don’t  even play the game. And I know that people think I’m a snob because I don’t want to play. 

Mrs. Jones 1:03:55  

Oh, you’re a snot about it. [Laughs] 

Mr. Jones 1:03:56  

But I don’t want to… let me – I’m trying to get to your point about – I know myself and I know I’m getting  into that hot tub and I see that bucket of ping pong balls over there. So I I’m taking responsibility for the  fact that I am going to have to deal with that. That’s my issue. And earlier we were talking about the  bubble, the barrier, the getting close to somebody. I’m I don’t want to pick up a ping pong ball and then  walk six feet across the hot tub and touch a woman’s boobs that I haven’t even talked with before,  because that’s a huge consent issue for me. So what do I do? I choose not to play the game because I  don’t want to be put into that situation. So that’s what I’m saying, whether it’s speed dating or the ping  pong ball game or whatever the – what is it, the darts – the other… 

Mrs. Jones 1:04:50  

Oh, the kinky darts?  

Mr. Jones 1:04:51  

Well, that’s with your own partner. So that doesn’t really count, but, but putting, you know, you’re going  to be putting yourself in a situation where consent is going to have to come up, you need to understand  it and prepare for that. That’s, that’s what I’m saying. And if you think that everybody’s going to handle  it like you want them to, most of the times, it’s okay. But but to have an expectation that everyone is  going to sense what you need and give you that, that’s a little bit naive. 

Mrs. Jones 1:05:21  

Well, right. And it’s up to each of us to, to communicate what we want or need from other people using  both our words and our body language. You know, and then I think you can go and have a good time.  But again, if you’ve had some sort of situation in your past where you know that you’re very vulnerable  in certain situations, just be aware of that. It’s not somebody else’s fault, that they, they touch you in a  certain way that they think is innocent. You know, and, you know, and it’s unfortunate on on both ends,  because the person feels like they’ve done something wrong when, you know, technically they haven’t,  but it – because you responded negatively, you know, they’re confused and now you know, you’re hurt  because this keeps bubbling back up to the top. 

Mr. Jones 1:06:13  

Yeah. And you know, we’re in a strange situation as podcasters and somebody very smartly mentioned  to me lately, or recently that she was observing us at an event. And she was observing other women  with me. And she made the point, what she said, You know, I didn’t think of this before but so many  people know you, they know so much about you, but you don’t know anything about them. And it’s  awkward because sometimes there’s sometimes there are people that say we’re just like you so we  know you’re going to like us. And and we have to deal with that. And we don’t get… 

Mrs. Jones 1:06:56 

You and I, we’re playing catch up. 

Mr. Jones 1:06:58  

Yeah, but but I want ask you a question because I just thought of this. And you and I have never talked  about this before. When we go and meet a couple, and typically it’s a couple that we’ve communicated  with before, or maybe in our community, and when we greet them for the first time, you normally, like  put your chin up and peck the guy on the lips. 

Mrs. Jones 1:07:23  

Uh, not normally on the lips. It’s more of a just on the side of the cheek.  

Mr. Jones 1:07:28  

Okay. Well see, I lose sight of you once you go, you know… 

Mrs. Jones 1:07:31  

Yeah, I’m so short. 

Mr. Jones 1:07:32  

But I always hug, and that – so my question is, I wonder if it’s the woman who… who sets the tone  there? 

Mrs. Jones 1:07:41  

Oh, I don’t know. That’s a good question. 

Mr. Jones 1:07:43  

Yeah, because my default setting is if I have never met you before. And I mean, I’m a hugger. So I’ll hug  guys too. But if it’s the first time I’ve met a guy, I hold up my hand and if it’s a woman, I – especially if  they know who we are, I observe her. I watch to see if she wants a hug. And if she wants a hug, I’ll hug  her. But I don’t – I’m not the one that makes the first move. Because I think if I’ve never met you before,  it’s a little creepy for me to just assume it’s okay to hug you. But But normally I can tell by their body  language and then I’ll hug them but I never like kiss a woman on the lips. Or most of the times not even  on the cheek if I’ve never met her before. 

Mrs. Jones 1:08:26  

I always kiss people on the cheek. 

Mr. Jones 1:08:27  

Yeah. And I know that’s, that’s why I was I observed that as a difference and… 

Mrs. Jones 1:08:31  

Well, lifestyle people. Not a potential business associate. 

Mr. Jones 1:08:37  

But I think my point is that you and I have a system down. And so we’ve been doing this for a while. So  as a couple, we know how to manage that. And so the point I’m trying to make is that whether you’ve  never done this before, or whether you’ve you’ve been in the lifestyle for a while, you and your partner  should have a game plan for consent. 

Mrs. Jones 1:09:00  

Yeah, that’s a good point.  

Mr. Jones 1:09:01  

You know, and talk with each other about what offends you, or what makes you uncomfortable or how  you want to be introduced to somebody, because maybe your spouse can help clear those hurdles for  you maybe, you know, working together, you know, it’s a lot more – It’s a lot less frightening, maybe, or  intimidating, to be together. So, you know, work as a team to come up with a plan about if you’re going  to meet a couple, how are you going to introduce yourselves? Because that’s really – you only get a  chance to do that one time. And it can be creepy. Or it can be pretty sexy. 

Mrs. Jones 1:09:42  

Yeah, that’s true. Now, you know, speaking of the other creepy part, like, here’s one thing that we  haven’t really, we’ve skimmed over this a lot tonight. You know, what happens when you don’t give  consent? And that person doesn’t respect that. 

Mr. Jones 1:10:06  

Okay, the first thing that we need to say is we’re not talking about anything illegal, or any anything. So  let’s just say that. So… 

Mrs. Jones 1:10:15  

Right. We’re talking about boundaries that get pushed without consent, let’s say. 

Mr. Jones 1:10:21  

Well, the first obvious answer there is stop. 

Mrs. Jones 1:10:26  

Yeah. Right. 

Mr. Jones 1:10:28  

You know, hopefully your partner’s in the same room with you. And you can just sit up like, like when we  were talking earlier when we were at that house party, and the guy asked if we could full swap, and I  said, What do you think and you looked at me? And you said, um, no. I mean, I didn’t even – my shivers  went up my spine because you looked at me, 

Mrs. Jones 1:10:47  

It was a Death Stare. 

Mr. Jones 1:10:50  

So if somebody’s taking a liberty with you, or somebody’s not respecting you, and you sat up, because  after you did that, like I lost my erection. 

Mrs. Jones 1:10:58  

You were done.  

Mr. Jones 1:10:59  

I was done for the evening because I went into…

Mrs. Jones 1:11:02  

I felt horrible. 

Mr. Jones 1:11:03  

I went in to defensive mode because you were – it was like you were in distress.  

Mrs. Jones 1:11:07  

He… Well, he didn’t. He asked. I mean, we’ve had worse happen. 

Mr. Jones 1:11:13  

But I didn’t know. I thought something might have happened the way that you were you were speaking  to me. 

Mrs. Jones 1:11:17  

Because we had had something worse happened before.  

Mr. Jones 1:11:19  

But that’s my point. If you’re – especially if you’re a female and you’re you’re feeling vulnerable and  somebody is crossed a line with you, you have a lifeline right there on the bed with you, hopefully are in  the same room. So again, working as a team, like, I need to go back to my husband. Now, if a woman  says that in the middle of play, everything normally stops. Now if I say hey, I want to go – I think I want to  go back and fuck my wife. That’s a different thing. But when somebody says, I need to go back to my  husband, like alarmingly, so that would be my recommendation. If there’s something that’s happened,  even if it’s a misunderstanding, talk about it later, but I want to go back to home base. 

Mrs. Jones 1:12:00  

Right, right. Yeah, I think that laying there and taking it, you know, whatever it is, whether it’s a soft  swap to full swap situation or some other form of play that that you’re not comfortable with and that  you didn’t agree to ahead of time. You know, it is not going to get better. You need to stop it.  

Mr. Jones 1:12:24  

Okay. Well, let’s talk about the – what if I don’t ask for my husband? What if I just put up with it? Then  you start to feel guilty, right? Because you’re like, I should have stopped that and I didn’t. Now you’re  now you’re feeling guilty and you’re angry at yourself? And you’re really mad at the other guy. 

Mrs. Jones 1:12:42  

Yeah, and and I did not feel very good about myself the next day. When that happened to us that one  time. I, yeah, it somehow his misunderstanding or, no, he didn’t misunderstand. He changed his mind.  His decision to not respect my boundary ended up making me feel bad about myself. That’s ridiculous.  But it happened. 

Mr. Jones 1:13:12  

Right. So So what do you do? I mean, you don’t keep it to yourself. Because if if you’re on your side of  the bed and I’m on my side of the bed, it could be going on and I might not even know. And we might  leave and you might huff out of there and I’m like, what’s, what’s going on? You know, you have to be  able to talk about it. You can’t just push it under the rug. 

Mrs. Jones 1:13:32 

Right. That’s not going to be the healthy long term solution for sure. 

Mr. Jones 1:13:36  

Right. So debriefing with your spouse or your partner, you know, is the first thing that you need to do. 

Mrs. Jones 1:13:41  

Yeah, and come up with a strategy to to keep it from happening again. And I think that’s what you were  referring to earlier when, you know, you need to have a discussion about, you know, consent and what  types of situations can arise where you’re not going to want to give consent. 

Mr. Jones 1:13:57  

And I think the last answer on this is one that I don’t even know that we would do this. So it’s probably  rare, but it’s certainly a possibility and that is to have a follow up conversation with the couple or the  individual.  

Mrs. Jones 1:14:12  

That’s hard to do.  

Mr. Jones 1:14:13  

I know it’s hard, but… 

Mrs. Jones 1:14:14  

You know, we did kind of do that once. And luckily, we’ve only had a very small handful of, of negative  experiences. And I think out of all of those, we’ve only talked to the other couple once about it. That was  a long time ago. 

Mr. Jones 1:14:29  

Rght. I mean, the easiest thing to do is to well, you know, I guess it depends on how – did it trigger  something in you? Like, is it – like was your attitude like, eh, that was a mistake. I’m just gonna take a  shower and live and learn, or did something happen that really caused an emotional response from you,  and those are two completely different types of responses. And I think your response was more, well,  geez, you know, you were mad about it, but, you know, you picked yourself up, and, you know, we went  on and learned. 

Mrs. Jones 1:15:10  

Yeah, that’s true. But But again, he didn’t end up doing anything I didn’t want him to do, I just felt… he  disrespected me. You know, but I guess in the defense of the other person, you can’t always assume  that that other person intended to do something wrong. They could just be really ignorant, or well,  selfish in the heat of the moment. Or naive like maybe they’re not good – maybe they don’t have high  emotional intelligence and they really can’t pick up on body language. And you know, if they understood  your yes to mean like a green light all the way home, you know. Maybe they’re just kind of like a  blockhead and didn’t really understand that they were crossing a line that … you thought had agreed to  not be crossed.  

Mr. Jones 1:16:12  

Yeah, it’s hard not to get upset with the people because you’re my most treasured possession and if  somebody disrespects you…

Mrs. Jones 1:16:19  

I’m your possession? 

Mr. Jones 1:16:20  

Yes.  

Mrs. Jones 1:16:24  

[Laughs] What? What Millennium are we in my dear? 

Mr. Jones 1:16:29  

All right. What what’s the right word? You tell me. 

Mrs. Jones 1:16:35  

I don’t know. I you My mind is blown now. I can’t even think of anything. I’m the most important person  in the world to you. 

Mr. Jones 1:16:44  

You’re the most important person in the world to me. 

Mrs. Jones 1:16:47  

There you go. [Laughs] 

Mr. Jones 1:16:49  

And if somebody disrespects you, then I am I’m as your husband I my first response is that fight or flight  you know that defend you and your honor and all that stuff. So it’s really hard for me to feel sorry for  somebody or it’s really hard for me to give somebody the benefit of the doubt at that point in time. I  think we would probably just leave and never correspond with them again. You know, but there is  always if, especially if it’s somebody that you know, or maybe even a friend or somebody you’ve played  with before. And there’s more at stake than just walking away. You know, maybe there is an opportunity  to say… 

Mrs. Jones 1:17:29  

That’s true. 

Mr. Jones 1:17:30  

Hey, we need to talk about this because something happened that really bothered us, and we need you  guys to know about it, and let’s talk about it. So that that’s a possibility. But that’s a really tough thing to  do. 

Mrs. Jones 1:17:42  

Yeah, for sure.  

Mr. Jones 1:17:44  

Okay. 

Mrs. Jones 1:17:46  

Wow, that was heavy.

Mr. Jones 1:17:47  

Yeah. Well, I think the bottom line here is content is a whole lot more complex than just a verbal yes or  no. 

Mrs. Jones 1:17:54  

Obviously.  

Mr. Jones 1:17:55  

And it’s easy to sit here in front of a microphone and cast stones at people and say, this is how you  should be, and I can’t believe people are like this and, you know, but the reality of it is, is it’s not a  simple thing. And and human beings are complex, and we’re talking about interacting with at least two  other people who have a relationship. And then there’s four way connections. There’s, there’s so much  going on here that it’s not a simple yes, or it’s not a simple no. 

Mrs. Jones 1:18:29  

Right. And ,,,the bottom line is, you know, as long as you’re intending to do no harm. There could be  some blunders. It’s never, you know, it’s it’s hard to get it all right. Because like you said, there’s so many  moving parts and, and so many nerves and I mean, you got four people in unchartered territory. You  know, if you’re talking about two couples playing together. And, you know, and I’m sitting here, thinking  about single people in the lifestyle, like, Oh my gosh, I’m just sitting here in awe of them, thinking they  have to navigate all of this alone. They don’t have a wing man. Whether it’s a man or a woman, I mean,  we always think about, you know, the women being vulnerable, but you know, a man can be just as  vulnerable and end up you know, in a really awkward, awful situation. You know, they, they, they they  really put themselves out there.  

Mr. Jones 1:19:29  

Well. Okay, I know, we’re about to close, but you just brought up something that I hadn’t thought of. I  don’t know. I think sometimes women are a lot more forward with me than men are with you when it  comes to consent. 

Mrs. Jones 1:19:41  

We just talked about that a couple episodes ago.  

Mr. Jones 1:19:42  

Yeah. So I think women need to keep that in mind. Look, I’m a I’m an easygoing guy, and I love to meet  you. But your first move shouldn’t be like between my legs. And and you know, but I’m the type of  person that and I’m blessed to have lived the life and brought – being brought up by the family that I you  know that I had. There’s no triggers, you know, there’s nothing in my background that – where it’s really  going to emotionally bother me, but I just shake my head and kind of step away. You know, but you  have to think about that. So we got it all figured out. Right? 

Mrs. Jones 1:19:44  

Well, it looks really good on paper. In the heat of the moment, it can be a challenge. Just, you know, just  try to be a good person and just be aware of the other people and what their – what you know, what’s  going on in their head? And as long as you go into it with that attitude, you know, a little misstep  shouldn’t be a deal breaker. 

Mr. Jones 1:20:48 

Yeah. So go in with a plan. Understand that you’re going to be put – you’re putting yourself in a situation.  Have a have an escape word, you know, like, I want to be – I need to be with my husband. You know, if  nothing else you can blurt that out. And then make sure you’re debriefing to understand exactly what  happened afterwards. And, and then live and learn. I mean, you know, you’re not going to necessarily we’re not talking about forgiving the other person or, or taking the person, the other person does  something wrong. They certainly need to share that responsibility. But we can learn from it, we can we  can move forward and say, Okay, next time we’re in that situation, here’s what we’re gonna do. And  hopefully get better at it as you go along. 

Mrs. Jones 1:21:31  

Definitely. 

Mr. Jones 1:21:33  

All right, it’s time to talk about something sexy. 

Mrs. Jones 1:21:36  

We’ll lighten stuff up in the next segment. 

Mr. Jones 1:21:39  

All right, well, well, we definitely had consent. At least I did for my snapshot. 

Mrs. Jones 1:21:45  

I’m pretty sure I did, too. 

Mr. Jones 1:21:47  

Yeah. Okay. Can’t wait to hear some sexy fun. We’ll be right back. [Music] 

Mrs. Jones 1:22:14  

Welcome back to snapshots.  

Mr. Jones 1:22:17  

Finally. 

Mrs. Jones 1:22:17  

This is gonna be a little more fun.  

Mr. Jones 1:22:20  

Can I go first?  

Mrs. Jones 1:22:21  

Sure. 

Mr. Jones 1:22:24  

This is actually a snapshot that happened a few months ago, but I had too many snapshots last time and  I couldn’t squeeze it in. We were with our friends that we had played with before. We’re in a hotel. And  the four of us were on the bed. And this this woman is very demonstrative. She’s very. She She tells you  what she likes.

Mrs. Jones 1:22:49  

She’s, she’s very good with verbal. 

Mr. Jones 1:22:51  

She is verbal. Yeah. And she is very creative also. So, all of a sudden, she says to me, get up. I said, oh,  okay. We get up out of the bed she says, come over here. There was a mirror in the hotel room on the  on the wall.  

Mrs. Jones 1:23:06  

Like a full length mirror.  

Mr. Jones 1:23:07  

A full length mirror, and she grabbed the chair. And she turned the chair around and she put her hands  on the back of the chair. And she said, I want you to fuck me from behind. Then I want you to watch in  the mirror. And I said yes, ma’am. And not only did I watch, but she was watching.  

Mrs. Jones 1:23:08  

And we were watching.  

Mr. Jones 1:23:31  

You were watching. 

Mrs. Jones 1:23:32  

Yes. And we had the whole bed to ourselves. We were like, whoo hoo, and we got to watch you at the  same time. 

Mr. Jones 1:23:39  

That was really hot. Yeah, to be with a woman who’s first of all, she’s really intelligent, really beautiful.  But, but to be with somebody who’s very clear in their communication. Not only is there a lot of  consent, but there’s a lot of this is really what I want to do. That’s really sexy. And so we did – we had sex  standing up, I was in her from behind, and we were looking at ourselves in the mirror.  

Mrs. Jones 1:24:04  

Yeah, that was hot.  

Mr. Jones 1:24:06  

Quite a snapshot. 

Mrs. Jones 1:24:07  

Yes. It was a snapshot for her husband and I too.  

Mr. Jones 1:24:10  

All right, well see if you can top that one.  

Mrs. Jones 1:24:12  

Well, mine’s kind of different. This was from a little while ago as well. We have a lot of people come into  town and hang out with us. We either like go up into DC, let’s say and go to hotels or, or whatever. But  we also – people have – have people come to our home. So we’re used to entertaining people in our 

home. However, we have the chance to go out of town and actually visit friends of ours in their home.  And we don’t do that very often. And we went out to dinner with this couple. We had a lovely dinner.  We’re really good friends with them and we’ve known them for a while now. So you know, the the  dinner was just really easy. And then they took us back to their home and we had a cocktail and we got a  tour of their house and we got to meet their puppy. And you know, it just it was so normal like we’re  hanging out with their dog and, and having cocktails and touring their house, and then we got to play  with them. And we actually played with them in their master bedroom. In their bed. Yeah. And I don’t  know, like, we don’t do that very often. So that was like, ridiculously hot for me. Because it was intimate.  They were sharing. They were sharing their, their, like real lives with us. They shared their bed with us.  You know, and we got to have sex with them in their bed. And I mean, gosh, they’re both so ridiculously  attractive and sweet and nice and funny and sexy and and you name it, that certainly didn’t help the  situation – or hurt the situation, but just I don’t know, it was just so much fun and, and I remember, you  know, looking over at you with her and and I don’t know, I just felt very, very connected that night. 

Mr. Jones 1:26:19  

Because they let us into their like inner sanctuary.  

Mrs. Jones 1:26:21  

Yes.  

Mr. Jones 1:26:22  

Yeah. Because in our house, we have a basement. We have a play room downstairs and that’s where the  play occurs. 

Mrs. Jones 1:26:27  

Yeah. We really don’t play with people in our own bedroom. 

Mr. Jones 1:26:30  

Yeah, and if I recall, that transition from touring the house and having a drink back to their kitchen. The  sexiness happened to pretty quickly.  

Mrs. Jones 1:26:41  

Yeah, that transition was pretty easy.  

Mr. Jones 1:26:43  

I remember coming up behind her and putting my arms around her. And then like, about five minutes  later, we were making out and then the next thing I know we were in their bedroom. 

Mrs. Jones 1:26:52  

Yeah. Yeah, that was some pretty hot and heavy sex.  

Mr. Jones 1:26:56  

That was. Yeah. 

Mrs. Jones 1:26:58  

And he’s got this like gorgeous smile and that’s what I remember. I think I was on top and just looking  down at him and you know their headboard behind us and, and his beautiful wife and you next to me  and and just his face with this like gorgeous smile and like oh my goodness.

Mr. Jones 1:27:18  

Yeah, it was very intimate. I think that’s what you’re saying.  

Mrs. Jones 1:27:20  

It was, it was hot, but it was intimate… 

Mr. Jones 1:27:21  

Because they allowed us into their… 

Mrs. Jones 1:27:24  

Yes. And you know again I think that that’s the beauty of the lifestyle and that’s what – if you can power  through this whole consent issue, because that’s – it’s awkward and it’s, you know, you’re unsure when  you first meet a couple, like this whole consent thing is like really like uncharted territory. But if you can  get through that with a couple and and make that elusive four way connection, and then you end up in  this intimate setting with them. It was so easy, and it’s so hot and and at the same time, it’s, it’s hot, but  it’s, um, I don’t know, I don’t want to sound stupid or sappy or whatever, but I just felt really, you know,  like, comfortable and emotionally safe. Like all of that consent crap has been put to bed.  

Mr. Jones 1:28:18  

Well, I mean, consent is mostly important with people that you’re playing with for the first or second  time.  

Mrs. Jones 1:28:23  

Right. Right. And I’m saying… 

Mr. Jones 1:28:24  

And this couple we’ve been played with for a few times. 

Mrs. Jones 1:28:26  

If you invest the energy to work that out, then you get to the point where consent isn’t weighing heavy  on your heart and your mind, and you can let your head out of the game a little bit. 

Mr. Jones 1:28:39  

Very good. So you tied a snapshot in with the topic.  

Mrs. Jones 1:28:42  

I did. 

Mr. Jones 1:28:42  

Pretty hot.  

Mrs. Jones 1:28:43  

I didn’t even mean to do that. 

Mr. Jones 1:28:45  

So I know. Gosh, let’s wrap up 69. You know, please join us on Kasidie or Double Date Nation. If you go  to our website you can follow – join both or either one of those sites and get 90 days for free. We also 

have a We Gotta Thing membership. And if you’re gonna go to Austin with us, you know you’ll go to our  website… 

Mrs. Jones 1:29:10  

Right now it’s open to members and it’s a hot commodity right now. That’s exciting.  

Mr. Jones 1:29:14  

The next – we have Podcast-A-Palooza next May. There’s information on our website about that in  Miami we’d love for you to join us there that’s more than half full I believe now. And Desire – we’d love  for you to book through us and go with us in November 14 to 21st of 2020. As always, we appreciate  you taking the time to reach out to us. Go to our website wegottathing.com and send us a contact  request or you can email me at [email protected] 

Mrs. Jones 1:29:19  

Or me at [email protected]  

Mr. Jones 1:29:53  

You can follow us on Twitter @wegottathing or on Instagram @wegottathing and we are also on  Pinterest.  

Mrs. Jones 1:30:00  

That’s right. And you know what?  

Mr. Jones 1:30:02  

What?  

Mrs. Jones 1:30:02  

That Valentine’s Day suite and the mansion at Desire Pearl is still available. That’s coming up.  

Mr. Jones 1:30:10  

I know.  

Mrs. Jones 1:30:10  

Somebody’s got to snag that thing.  

Mr. Jones 1:30:12  

I know that we’ve got a couple people in there before that and after that, but if you want that  Valentine’s day week, let us know.  

Mrs. Jones 1:30:18  

That’s right.  

Mr. Jones 1:30:19  

So thanks for listening. We are Mr. and Mrs. Jones and we gotta thing.  

Mrs. Jones 1:30:22  

What’s your thing? [Music]

Mrs. Jones 1:30:23  

[Outtakes] Hi, you know… 

Mr. Jones 1:31:07  

Excuse me. 

Mrs. Jones 1:31:08  

[Laughing] That was really loud in my ear. Oh Lord, what were we talking about? 

Mr. Jones 1:31:23  

Bubbles. 

Mrs. Jones 1:31:25  

Yeah, we were talking about bubbles. 

Mr. Jones 1:31:27  

I know.  

Mrs. Jones 1:31:30  

I jinxed you. Okay. [/vc_column_text][/vc_tta_section][/vc_tta_accordion][/vc_column][/vc_row]